From: trminlxGARBAGE@bitstreamnet.com   
      
   In article ,   
    Sourcerer  wrote:   
      
   > On 6 Nov 2003, FixinDixon wrote:   
   >   
   >    
   >   
   > > Sourcerer wrote:   
   >   
   > > > > FixinDixon wrote:   
   > >   
   > > > > This is an exercise on everybody who posts here.  Assuming that the CP   
   > > > > subculture is based on characters and acts from CP books,   
   > > >   
   > > > This is seriously wrong. Cyberpunk culture derives from the Cyberpunk   
   > > > Movement in sf -- from the authors, who were radical and revolutionary   
   > > > within the context of sf, not the characters in the stories they wrote,   
   > > > and they were either part of, or at least very interested in, the   
   > > > phreaking culture that developed in the Yippies, as well as the hi tech   
   > > > variant of hippies (the EFF embodies a lot of that).   
   > >   
   > > The CP culture derives from the CP Movement in SF - fine.  The CP   
   > > movement is based on the authors - that HAS to be wrong.   
   >   
   > The "CP Movement in SF" was called The Cyberpunk Movement. It published   
   > Cheap Truth. Probably 60% of it was Bruce Sterling. If there is another   
   > cyberpunk movement, you'll have to identify it before we can discuss it.   
   >   
   > > Granted,   
   > > they wrote the books, but I don't see anyone directly quoting CP   
   > > 'speeches' given by Gibson et al, but rather discussing his books.  If   
   > > Gibson et al had given talks about CP and the nature of it (they must   
   > > have at one convention or another), then why arn't you lot talking   
   > > about what they said?  Answer - because the only COMMON source of   
   > > information is in the books they wrote, and it is this common source   
   > > that the Movement and culture is based on.   
   >   
   > You may have not have seen such discussions, but they have taken place   
   > here. (I should also mention the logical dissonance above: "The CP   
   > movement is based on the authors - that HAS to be wrong" and "...the   
   > only COMMON source of information is in the books they wrote" -- but   
   > first you have to identify a cyberpunk movement for us.   
   >   
   > There were a number of movements that directly influenced cyberpunk.   
   > I've mentioned some. I can point to their organizations, publications,   
   > spokespersons, actions, history etc etc -- the things that indicate a   
   > 'movement'. If there is such a thing for cyberpunk outside of the   
   > science fiction one, I am not aware of it (excluding the various bored   
   > dorm dweebs and their manifestos. There are, of course, net.kooks who   
   > have claimed to lead a cp movement).   
   >   
   > The notion of a cyberpunk movement is imaginary. To assert there is such   
   > a thing obscures the important question why there isn't a cyberpunk   
   > movement, considering the intense movement orientation of its   
   > influences. The fact that alt.cyberpunk.movement is a ghost town and has   
   > been so since it was newgrouped is telling.   
      
   I think the answer is why there isn't a cybeprun movement comes in the   
   form of where those who contribute to this group come from - I'll just   
   call us Cyberpunks and take the heat for it at the moment... esp. since   
   I don't believe a "cyberpunk" really exists anywhere in real life.   
      
   We're punks, technocrats, writers, admin geeks, hackers, phreaks,   
   teachers, wage slaves, metal heads, goths, environmentalists, probably a   
   neo-luddite or two even.   
      
   We're so all over the board that we can't even agree on what Cyberpunk   
   is, or even what books are CP in many cases. How can you form a   
   "movement" of any nature without knowing what the movement is supposed   
   to be? you can't.   
      
   And there IS NOT a "Cyberpunk Movement", never was in the real world   
   sense of movement. The Movement, as it is labeled, was purely contained   
   within the functions of Science Fiction writing and what was acceptable   
   SF for the time, since it had, when CP became a term, become little more   
   then Space Operas and Fantasy novels set in space (that's a more or less   
   common concensus, there will always be exceptions to the rules   
   somewhere).   
      
   So, FixinDixon, tell us what this movement is supposed to be and we'll   
   tell you if we want to join. Either way we're not leaving this newsgroup.   
      
      
   ghost   
   ~/~ Sometimes I forget to pray I'll make it through this fucking day ~/~   
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