From: Alienthe@hotmail.com   
      
   Sourcerer wrote:   
      
   > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, ghost wrote:   
   >>In article ,   
   >> Sourcerer  wrote:   
   >>>On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, ghost wrote:   
   >>>>In article ,   
   >>>> Sourcerer  wrote:   
      
      
   >    
   >   
   >>>We each have inherited our own mix of cultural DNA from various forms   
   >>>the counterculture movement has taken. The "motion" of the movement is   
   >>>antagonistic to the culture it is a counter to. Most of the folks   
   >>>looking for a movement in cyberpunk mean something like the Yippies,   
   >>>whether they know it or not: outlaw techno-rebels working to bring   
   >>>freedom and anarchism to this sickened society, hopefully while having   
   >>>fun. This has never worked.   
   >>>   
   >>and I'm glad, anarchism would probably put me out of a job, since I'm   
   >>the Security business.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >    
   >   
   >>>I have a theory that countercultural movements develop and wane along   
   >>>with the condition of the economy. The generational changes of   
   >>>alt.cyberpunk align with changes in the broader economy. The 1st   
   >>>generation changed to the 2nd after the recession of the early 90's, the   
   >>>2nd to the 3rd after the dotcom bubble burst in 99-00.   
   >>>   
   >>>The hippie and yippie movements emerged when the post-war boom ended in   
   >>>the late 60s, the punks during the 70s deep recession that then   
   >>>developed. 1966-1976 was the high point of the counterculture movement.   
   >>>It was also the duration of the unravelling of the postwar economy.   
   >>>   
   >>>The Cyberpunk Movement came right after the recession of the early 80s.   
   >>>If countercultural movements catch a cultural wind, it appears to blow   
   >>>only when the economy is failing. Cyberpunk came to be during a rocky   
   >>>economic period that appeared to be bad, but was in fact good. After   
   >>>1993 it was explosively good. It happened to be good in ways that   
   >>>aligned with the hi tech and even low life interests of cyberpunk. It is   
   >>>hard to be antagonistic and counter towards a culture that seems to be   
   >>>in process of making your dreams come true 8-)   
   >>>   
   >>You know, I never really looked at it like that, but it makes some kind   
   >>of sense.   
   >   
   > What happened to the cyberpunk culture? We all got jobs is what   
   > happened. Software development and design, Security, net and sys   
   > administration, house geek for the corps -- even the least experienced   
   > could hustle work at the help desk. And we had all of these toys and   
   > tools just rolling of the slaver's assembly lines in E. Asia and China,   
   > getting cheaper, better, faster.   
      
      
   Those of us working in the industrial R&D scene have already   
   seen the writings on the wall. Margins are way down and has   
   approaced zero for some production lines in the West, all   
   profits generated from purchasing alone. Combined with an   
   ever shortening product life and increasing overhead that   
   has to be paid off through staggering and still growing   
   volumes it is clear this cannot continue for long. Mmmm, I   
   can feel another Technical Musing coming along...   
      
   All in all we seem to be acellerating towards a definite   
   brick wall.   
      
   > I think we are at another 'tippping point' for the economy, one that   
   > will take us into 'the cybergothic dystopic future' and perhaps a   
   > cyberpunk movement will emerge in the wreckage, say around 2008 -- or   
   > whenever we begin to recover from the shock resulting from the collapse   
   > of global finance.   
      
      
   Late 2004 is the current estimated point of recovery for   
   at least parts of the high tech industry. There are some   
   positive signs already but these are not unambiguous yet.   
      
   >>I can see it now, "Quick Mr. Mega-Corp, give me awesome tech really   
   >>cheap - keep doing research to make it faster & cheaper while I tell   
   >>everyone how evil you are!!" Heh ... I'm just curious as to where people   
   >>think most advancements in technology will come from once they topple   
   >>the MegaCorps in control of everything .. Seems to me to rail against   
   >>the corporations in this day and age you'd have to be a neoluddite. It'd   
   >>be the only logical move.   
   >   
   > A bit more than 10 years ago there was a thread here (it was one of the   
   > first I posted to) about technology and jobs. The subject was what to do   
   > about all the people who can only do 'low level' jobs, since technology   
   > was and would continue to relentlessly eliminate them. The subject was,   
   > could you educate and train such 'low level' workers to do 'high level'   
   > work, who are likely to be uneducatable and untrainable. What to do   
   > about the coming masses of the unemployed?   
      
      
   The ting is, what is sufficiently high tech to be safe   
   is always a moving target. It is easy to feel safe and   
   invulnerable, ignorance is bliss. Then reality appears.   
      
   As for the untrainable there seems to be two main approaches,   
   one is to force everyone through higher education, no matter   
   what, the other to focus both on academic as well as crafts   
   training such as in Germany. There will always be some   
   untrainables, you can only minimise the remainders through   
   realising everyone is different. Strange then that the German   
   approach is so uncommon.   
      
   Then you have the effects of freely available education   
   and the class system. There have been quiet mutterings   
   that freely available education would change the recruits   
   to future leaders of social democratic parties, potential   
   leaders might rather get high paying jobs in business   
   rather than consider a career in politics. Already in   
   Sweden you can see members from the aristocracy staffing   
   socialist parties.   
      
   > The thread exposed the class and political antagonisms in the group, but   
   > what is on-point here was the assumption that highly skilled jobs in   
   > technology would expand forever. It never occured to them that their   
   > jobs would 'run away' to India, or that newer technologies would   
   > obsolete them, mocking their smug satisfaction in their once elite   
   > skillsets, their bright economic futures. I wonder how many of them got   
   > sacked the past 3 years?   
      
      
   My first skills are not in demand anymore, only large   
   investments in time and effort makes it possible to stay   
   ahead; those that smugly believe they can rest once they   
   have reached some kind of level will always sink.   
      
   There is much talk on jobs leaving for India. Yet there is   
   an equally dramatic ticking bomb in the West, particularly   
   in the US: if just 10 percent of the Chinese were to return   
   to China, then Silicon Valley would implode overnight and   
   quite possibly be rebuilt in China.   
      
   >>I can see it now, "Quick Mr. Mega-Corp, give me awesome tech really   
   >>cheap - keep doing research to make it faster & cheaper while I tell   
   >>everyone how evil you are!!" Heh ... I'm just curious as to where   
   >>people  think most advancements in technology will come from once they   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)