From: bogus@mail.com   
      
   On 8 Dec 2003 00:29:51 -0800, zap_25@yahoo.com (Zap) wrote:   
      
      
   >   
   >But in a sense I *am* member of the "establisment" and in a way I *do*   
   >support the RIAA and the MPAA.   
      
   no "sense" to it... you are "establisment"   
      
   >I buy records and I go to the cinema.   
   >Part of the revenue pays for the activities of those organisations.   
   >If I rip everything I know that I'm holding out money to the creative   
   >minds behind the product. And I'm not ready to restrict myself to   
   >content that's been made available without the AA's interference.   
      
   Gee... maybe you need to go and read the other established media and   
   findout how much of your money actually goes to those "creative   
   minds"... In the case of the RIAA it is mostly 0%.   
      
   [snip]   
      
      
      
   >So basically you're as superficial as the next Matrixlatex or Xposter.   
   >Only what they see as positive you see as negative. The only   
   >difference between them and you is the clique they belong to. That's   
   >essentially what I read here.   
      
      
      
      
   >There is no difference between art and a fart. The only difference is   
   >the label people attach to it. Some consider it art when Jimi   
   >Hendrix's fart is recorded and sold. Others make millions by   
   >describing their last high.   
      
   Your definition of art seems to be based on how many "farts" are sold.   
      
      
   >And to be in the media you don't have to sell yourself to an audience.   
      
   Wrong.   
      
   If you market and sell you make a profit. Make a profit and you can   
   afford to come back again with another product. If you don't market   
   and sell you don't come back.   
      
   Marketing is the science of finding fools to separate from there   
   money. Sales is the science doing that.   
      
   Music & Movies are no longer "art" based industries. They are product   
   based industries. Only "indies" can afford to attempt 'art' for 'art'   
   sake because there isn't enough money involved. When you go "big   
   league" the big motive is money. You have to answer to the stock   
   holders. Stockholders aren't interested if you don't make money. They   
   will fire you and get somebody who will make you money.   
      
   >If you're good enough your audience will come.   
      
   As long as you are small time or dead. Alas. If your dead you don't   
   get any of the profits.   
      
   >Word of mouth is   
   >powerful enough in this world. Selling yourself to any audience means   
   >you've allready lost your soul in a way. It means you're considering   
   >that extra factor in whatever you produce.   
      
   This is the RIAA / MPAA way. get used to it or get out of the   
   business. Since the 1970s Music and Movies have become "products". As   
   time has gone along only more so.   
      
   In the early 1990s I attended a seminar for musicians called something   
   like "Doing music and nothing else" It was a "business side of the   
   business"  education seminar for Musicians and Producers trying to   
   "get in".   
      
   One of the points harped upon was: "your music is your product. Shape   
   it to your audience so they will buy your product. Keep records so you   
   can show the big boys how much you are selling". and on and on.   
      
   One other thing to noted was those with criminal records or financial   
   problems need not apply with the notable exception of 'gansta rap'   
   where having a police record gives one marketing credibility   
      
   The Corporation Music Machine isn't interested so much in talent as   
   they are in products to sell.   
      
   [snip]   
      
   >The Real Art (tm) I know is without compromise. It simply is.   
      
   Good to hear that you do have a sense of Art. Tho' I don't expect Your   
   Art (tm) and My Art(tm) to be the same.   
      
   >I'm not   
   >going to change my e-mail adress to get more audience, just like I   
   >don't change my clothes just to get accepted and noticed by any group.   
      
   But you are perfectly willing to incite others to a rage and sit back   
   and enjoy it. That has style... The question as always: is there   
   substance behind the style.   
      
   I won't likely find out. I still won't join a yahoo group. If only   
   because they *are* big media. they *do* use the sciences of marketing   
   and selling to get their demographics and so forth.   
      
   As mentioned in another thread here if you'd like a look at   
   advertising and megacorps taken to a satirical extreme read _The Space   
   Merchants_ by C.M. Kornbluth and Fredrick Pohl. It's an *old* book   
   [1953] but it is very much validated by what has happened.   
      
   good luck.   
      
   the ded 1   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)