cefd3334   
   From: trminlxGARBAGE@bitstreamnet.com   
      
   In article <2qfctvsjdqpovvu79l43jgd0qpf1okrbvm@4ax.com>,   
    3ngine <3ngine> wrote:   
      
   > > And just because the Cities 'talked' doesn't mean it was meant as a   
   > >proto-net .. in that vein anyone who's written a letter was part of the   
   > >proto-net and that goes back a few hundred years. Communication itself   
   > >does not denote a proto-internet in any way.   
   >   
   > Some CP stories are more cyber, some are more punk.  _Walkin'_ took   
   > more of the latter than the former; let me pare down my original   
   > remarks, then.  The Cities are basically artifical life forms, right?   
   > They're not computer-based, but they're as close to a comp AI as you   
   > can get.  The book never discusses how the Cities "talked," how they   
   > were able to communicate or how they were able to coordinate the   
   > massive "death to the city-killer" movement at the end of the book.   
   > The Cities were equal entities, nodes on a single network; this   
   > certainly anticipated the Internet in ways that people writing letters   
   > to each other do not.   
      
   something like, say, telepathy found all over "traditional SF" from   
   years before? I will never agree that Walkin' ever had the idea of a   
   proto-net in place. One simple reason would be because that every other   
   proto-net took the idea of networking computers, an idea that was around   
   when Walkin' was written so it wouldn't have been any more or less of a   
   jump than what occured several years later in Neuromancer. Yes, Walkin'   
   is much more punk than anything, but mostly because Shirley was, at the   
   time, a punk himself.   
      
   > >> Once CP fused with the Net (in reality), it   
   > >> *changed*, shifted, whatever - it was no longer a prophetic vision of   
   > >> a future, but the scientific extrapolation of current technologies and   
   > >> how they would look in fifteen, twenty, fifty years.   
   > >   
   > >Wasn't it always an extrapolation of the current technologies .. I mean,   
   > >isn't that what a "near-future-vision" is supposed to be?   
   >   
   > Exactly - I'm talking about a specific "near-future-vision" that CP   
   > authors had before widespread usage of the Net and then again after CP   
   > authors had experienced the Net on a regular basis.  The former is   
   > reality imitating art, and the latter is art imitating reality.  Well,   
   > maybe not so black-and-white as the above statement seems to imply,   
   > but you get my drift.   
      
   Ok, if you want to take up a specific point within the CP genre that's   
   fine. But don't go saying things like CP died in '92 ... how about the   
   "internet as something NEW" died off by '92 because that schtick out of   
   the CP bag was now a reality. There were still plenty of tricks in the   
   bag to play with that had nothing to do with the idea of the internet.   
   Like cyborgs. or AI.   
      
   Of course, I may be one of the few people around who refuse to claim CP   
   is dead. I think we just have to work a little harder to seperate the   
   grain from the chaff now than we did in the late 80s and early 90s. Like   
   any genre that catches the attention of a large number of people the   
   amount of pure shit under the label grows faster than the good stuff.   
      
   > All I'm arguing is that CP before and after the Net are not only   
   > fundamentally different, but *feel* different.  I don't think that   
   > makes post-Net CP any less valid, just different.  It's the *feel* of   
   > pre-Net CP that I'm looking for, and that I like to read.  I like to   
   > read about futuristic computers that use tape drives :)   
      
   Every novel or story feels different to me, CP has an overall tone that   
   I don't believe has changed enough in the last 20 years to consider the   
   genre either dead or so different it needs some new name. The only   
   subgenre of CP I recognize personally is steampunk since it has such a   
   radically different feel to it than 'normal' cyberpunk. And I don't   
   recognize nanopunk or biopunk, as subgenre's because I feel they're just   
   Cyberpunk with a racing stripe, or something like that.   
      
   > >And yes, I contributed to the ACC.Anthology. And oddly enough my story   
   > >didn't contain a visible internet .. though admitedly it borders on   
   > >basic SF themse more than CP, I was going for a CP feel in a different   
   > >setting. Did I succeed? not sure.   
   >   
   > I'll get back to you when I read it :)   
      
   cool. we always like feedback. There's definitely better stuff in there   
   than my story however.   
      
   ghost   
   ~/~ Sometimes I forget to pray I'll make it through this fucking day ~/~   
               www.accanthology.com ~/~ www.bitstreamnet.com   
                      take out the GARBAGE to email.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)