XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.supp   
   rt.schizophrenia   
   From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 06:26:44 -0400, ansaman  wrote:   
      
   >On 7/8/2021 11:44 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 23:17:18 -0400, ansaman  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 7/8/2021 6:34 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>> As a matter of fact.  Civilization is an unnatural act.  That doesn't   
   >>>> mean that humans will stop trying to make it work.   
   >>>   
   >>> What makes it an unnatural act? Are you saying that   
   >>> man is not a natural phenomena? What do you base that on?   
   >>   
   >> The natural thing was that humans would be hunter gatherers.   
   >> Since leaving that behind, lots of other unnatural objections to   
   >> nature's way have come along, like wanting to eat but refusing to be   
   >> eaten (as much as possible).   
   >   
   >That is the right of the apex predator, totally natural. Man   
   >is the ultimate apex predator.   
      
   Not when he is living in his natural role as hunter gatherer.  Also,   
   mosquitoes need to eat too.  Diseases are organisms that need to eat.   
   The only time an animal kills another naturally is to eat.   
      
   Humans are dangerous animals, but there are others far better equipped   
   to be predators.  Humans are omnivores, not lions who must hunt.   
      
   Humans in groups can kill large herbivores like buffalos with pointy   
   sticks, but it is a dangerous undertaking.  Humans were not meant be   
   able to stand a distance away and kill buffalo with guns.   
      
   And finally, it is known that humans age as their cells become less   
   able to deal with the products of metabolism, like urea.  The solution   
   to not growing old, is enable our cells to become able to handle urea   
   as in the past.  Why not, they could do it before?  Yes, researchers   
   are working on it.  In time, yes, humans will refuse to die, refuse to   
   be natural.   
      
   Not meant too... That suggests that somebody did the meaning.  Not   
   necessary.  There is only the contrast between what we were not too   
   long ago and what we are now.  Our brains are wired for the old life,   
   haven't had the million years it takes to adapt to the new one.   
      
   Meanwhile ecological systems, where the worm eats dead things in the   
   soil, birds eat the worms, cats eat the birds, cats die and feed the   
   worms, and everything that lives is in balance with everything else in   
   an endless cycle, are going away.  Humans don't like that, it is   
   messy.  Humans simply want to be the only ones here except for dog and   
   cat pets, maybe.  No diseases, no death, forever.  It is natural to   
   want that, but not to actually be able to do it.   
      
   What, I want to be the only one here?  I don't want that.   
      
   Of course you don't.  But the things humans generally do want will   
   eventually cause that.   
      
   Who cares about mosquitoes and frogs?  The mosquitoes eats you, the   
   frog eats the mosquito, the heron eats the frog.  Messy.  Great Blue   
   Herons are so beautiful.  Put a plastic one in your front yard.   
      
   >>   
   >> Putting a hunter gatherer in a city with concrete and stop lights   
   >> everywhere is about like putting a lion or a grizzly in a zoo.  Ever   
   >> seen a lion going mad with frustration?  Back and forth, back and   
   >> forth.  This is not how it was supposed to be he thinks.   
   >   
   >Ah so you have this little box called hunter-gatherer   
   >and you have put mankind in it and declared that natural,   
   >but man is not the only hunter-gatherer and he is far   
   >more than that. Mankind creates and uses tools (indeed   
   >some animals have exhibited some tool making).   
   >That does not make your city dweller unnatural. Mankind   
   >also creates records and culture. Mankind is the master   
   >manipulator, but I do not see how that makes him unnatural.   
   >That is not how YOU think he is supposed to be. He has   
   >chosen all these things, if not personally, then by   
   >previous generations.   
   >   
   >Ask Ned, there is evidence that cities were formed   
   >to facilitate making beer, for defense, for storage   
   >and creation of food, for trading of goods, for   
   >exploitation of specialized skills, for religion.   
   >There are a lot of reasons for cities and that does   
   >not make them unnatural.   
   >   
   >   
   >>   
   >> The bubbling from underneath, like gasses escaping from a tar pit,   
   >> comes in humans because they somehow believe concrete and stoplights   
   >> is exactly how things should be.   
   >>   
   >> Metaphorically.   
   >>   
   >> Noah Sombrero   
   >>   
      
   Noah Sombrero   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)