XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.supp   
   rt.schizophrenia   
   From: wilson@nowhere.net   
      
   On 7/10/2021 12:35 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 11:38:22 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 7/10/2021 10:15 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:11:03 -0400, Noah Sombrero    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:01:49 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
   >>>>> On 7/9/2021 7:46 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 17:57:14 -0400, ansaman  wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 7/9/2021 4:45 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> Then there is the problem about how we invented all kinds of whatzits   
   >>>>>>>> and forgot that what we really needed to change was ourselves.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Humans are now hunter gatherer brains living in a world they don't   
   >>>>>>>> understand.  Didn't choose.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> We created this world. We chose it willingly and   
   >>>>>>> knowingly.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Sorta.  It still feels like "I did not choose this" to many.   
   >>>>>> Feelings, of course, are not rational.   They simply are.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Phantom limbs have feeling even though they are not there.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Different kind of feeling.   
   >>   
   >> It's the same sort of feeling, though.  Experiencing what is not there.   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Feelings are   
   >>>>> experienced, but they are not tangible and may not square with what is   
   >>>>> real outside yourself.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> As I said they are not rational.  Love being necessary to the making   
   >>>> of babies, but the loved one is really simply another human among the   
   >>>> masses.  That does not mean that love is to be ignored as irrational.   
   >>>> It is part of what makes life worth living along with other feelings.   
   >>>> We simply must honor them.  The "I did not choose this" feeling as   
   >>>> much as any.  Being rational does not make life worth living, Mr.   
   >>>> Spock, and it does not make humans content to live in cities and spend   
   >>>> a large part of their lives working for a paycheck.   
   >>>   
   >>> It is part of the modern human experience.  We want to do something   
   >>> that we are not content to do.  And the challenge of being in the   
   >>> modern world.  Humans simply must learn to understand themselves.   
   >>   
   >> You say that other human beings "forgot that what we really needed to   
   >> change was ourselves."  But I keep hearing people say that, so clearly   
   >> we haven't forgotten it.   
   >>   
   >> Perhaps it's a choice to be discontent.  The lion paces at the edge of   
   >> his cage.  He could be content but is not.  You might say "that is his   
   >> nature" and maybe you'd be correct.  But what about the lion that is   
   >> happy, eating her free meat, playing and swimming in the pool?  Is her   
   >> contentedness not a part of her nature as well?   
   >   
   > I must have missed seeing that  lion at the zoo.   
      
   I've seen videos where they are very happy, at least for the moment.   
      
   Personally I'd never want to put animals in a zoo.  That's why I don't   
   go to see them there.  I don't like it, but there they are.   
      
      
   >   
   >> If what we need to change is ourselves, why do you focus on the outer   
   >> world and the choices other human beings make when they decide to live   
   >> in cities?   
   >>   
   >> Are you purely the effect of your feelings?  Or are you potentially the   
   >> maker of them?   
   >   
   > Potentially somewhat.  Do you get to "choose" who to love?   
      
   Potentially somewhat, yes.  Somewhat no.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)