XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.supp   
   rt.schizophrenia   
   From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:52:46 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
      
   >On 7/10/2021 12:45 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:47:27 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 7/9/2021 3:40 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 15:31:35 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 7/9/2021 3:04 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 13:18:00 -0400, Wilson  wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 7/9/2021 1:04 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Humans are dangerous animals, but there are others far better   
   equipped   
   >>>>>>>>>> to be predators.  Humans are omnivores, not lions who must hunt.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Humans in groups can kill large herbivores like buffalos with pointy   
   >>>>>>>>>> sticks, but it is a dangerous undertaking.  Humans were not meant be   
   >>>>>>>>>> able to stand a distance away and kill buffalo with guns.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Who are you to say what is "meant to be"?  Who are any of us?  If it   
   is,   
   >>>>>>>>> it is meant to be.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Talking about what was and what is, does not mean that I think I can   
   >>>>>>>> say what is meant to be.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Yet somehow one paragraph above you said, "Humans were not meant be   
   >>>>>>> able to stand a distance away and kill buffalo with guns."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That is not how it was done when the earth was young.  When humans   
   >>>>>> were in tune with nature.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Look.  I know you're a fan of Biden but that's no reason to act like a   
   >>>>>>> demented doddering old fool.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> How about if I act like a president doing a perfectly good job?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The statement I quoted was, "civilization is an unnatural act."   
   >>>>>>>> Perhaps the problem is that some people are applying their value   
   >>>>>>>> judgments to "unnatural".   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> More weasel words.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If you don't like what they say.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Here's a fact for you:  If it exists it is natural.  Because humans are   
   >>>>>>> a part of nature, the end result of natural processes.  Who are you, in   
   >>>>>>> your tiny bubble of the finite, to say otherwise?  The separation of   
   >>>>>>> what humans create from what is "natural" is artificial and a   
   >>>>>>> destruction of the tapestry of creation and nature.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> It is not about what can be defined as natural if you manage your   
   >>>>>> words well enough.  It is about how we feel about the world we have   
   >>>>>> created for ourselves.  Like the lion in the zoo going back and forth   
   >>>>>> in frustration.  Don't see a parallel?  That's ok, I didn't expect you   
   >>>>>> would.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I do understand exactly what you're saying.  To be out of harmony with   
   >>>>> the world around us as it is, is to soak in despair.  The lion in   
   >>>>> captivity feels despair and frustration because his nature is to be free   
   >>>>> and bounded only by the abilities that nature gave him.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Great.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> What I'm saying though?  Do you have a clue?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> And it is also our nature to be free and bounded only by abilities   
   >>>> nature gave us.  Nature did not give us cities to live in and workaday   
   >>>> jobs.  Humans did that to themselves.   
   >>>   
   >>> That's what you're saying, not what I'm saying.   
   >>>   
   >>> I take it from your response you might not have a clue.   
   >>>   
   >>> You said, "Humans were not meant be able to stand a distance away and   
   >>> kill buffalo with guns."   
   >>>   
   >>> And I say, yes we are.   
   >>>   
   >>> Your idea that we're not meant to do certain things that we are clearly   
   >>> doing is a denial of reality.   
   >>   
   >> What I say is that when humans lived as hunter gatherers with pointy   
   >> sticks for weapons and the ability to outlast a deer sometimes, they   
   >> were living within natural systems, not destructive to them.  That is   
   >> no longer the case.  And I also say that the human brain has not had   
   >> time to adapt to civilized life.   
   >>   
   >> It is true that I did not say that very well.  Here is another   
   >> attempt.   
   >   
   >Cities are just as "natural" as spears.   
      
   I thought maybe we weren't using the same definition.   
      
   >The human brain not being ready for all of this however actually makes   
   >sense.   
      
   In fact the changes in the past 20 years are overwhelming in   
   themselves especially to the old folks, and current generation   
   technophobes.  Even though I am an old folk who has done fairly well   
   with it.  The changes in our children are noticeable, although old   
   folk have always seen that in younger generations.   
      
   Most noticeable changes.  Children no longer play in the streets, are   
   not allowed to roam the neighborhood, are not allowed to walk   
   themselves to school, as much as possible play must be supervised.   
   Instead of parents teaching children their values, they let television   
   teach values for them.  Televisions are such good babysitters.  Better   
   that children should be in front of some sort of screen than outside   
   playing.   
      
   Who wants to be struggling with the little monsters anyway?  Let TV do   
   it.  Well parents, this was the job you signed up for, with all the   
   love and cuddling you can muster.  You don't remember, but your   
   parents (or grandparents) sure do.   
      
   These, of course, are tendencies not absolutes.  Who knows how these   
   kids will feel about it all in 50 years?   
      
   Noah Sombrero   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)