From: slider@anashram.com   
      
   gets more reasonable in the end wrote...   
      
   (so am snipping all the useless personal crap...)   
      
   >> my personal opinion (and am only speculating here) is that it's actually   
   >> all the same thing albeit approached from different angles, thus   
   >> seemingly   
   >> producing different effects that people have then called/labeled one   
   >> thing   
   >> or another...   
   >   
   >> the practice of WILDing, however, reveals aspects of the whole thing   
   >> that   
   >> suggests it's all actually only the same effect/thing: an inbuilt   
   >> natural   
   >> ability to enter at-will and on demand into an altered state of   
   >> awareness   
   >> (you've even experienced it your self 3 or 4 times now so no need for   
   >> moi   
   >> to describe it) something which to all extents and purposes appears like   
   >> being in a lucid dreaming state, the difference with WILDs being the   
   >> 'extra' options that are also available (such as there being a midway   
   >> point) that doesn't appear to be available via those others   
   >> forms/modes...   
   >> iow: WILDs in and of themselves are more revealing about the whole   
   >> nature   
   >> of lucid dreaming and states of altered awareness in general...   
   >   
   >> my personal feeling being to say/suggest that WILDs are the full monty   
   >> of   
   >> lucid dreaming wherein everything about it is revealed instead of   
   >> obscured... iow: WILD enough times deliberately and it all becomes very   
   >> clear exactly what lucid dreaming actually is and means...   
   >   
   >> ### - even laberge didn't 'invent' WILDs, he only invented a modern name   
   >> for a very old + known effect, i.e., he scientifically proved that lucid   
   >> dreaming was a thing and waking dreams were part of it (dilds & wilds)   
   >> and   
   >> thus brought the whole subject out of occult literature and into the   
   >> scientific realm thus making it available to the general public for the   
   >> first time...   
   >   
   >> all i've personally done is to add a little something to that (the use   
   >> of   
   >> hypnagogia to enter it + a small map of the midway point itself)   
   >   
   >> have never claimed it was new... in fact i've openly suggested it's   
   >> actually incredibly old :)   
   >   
   > i tend to think that dreaming (all  forms of dreaming) is like entering   
   > a library   
   > of preloaded pictures that somehow we access and it gets played in our   
   > head.   
   > Notice that the dream has a mind of its own until we get lucid or awake   
   > in the   
   > dream and then it can be altered.    But what or who set up the show?   
   > And don't   
   > say it was the dreamer as if it concocted all this stuff on the spot   
   > when you go to   
   > sleep.   There's never a shortage of dreams,   think of it.    Here i am   
   > a 73 year old   
   > fart and i'm still making shit up every night that i don't have a   
   > fucking clue about.   
   > They never make much sense.   For the most part you forget 98% by noon   
   > anyhow.   
   > IF mankind has been doing this drill for 100,000 years,  how come we are   
   > still   
   > dumb as a rug?    We don't learn very fast.    Here's the best line:   
   > "it was just a dream".   
   > Yeah useless as ever,  same as it ever was,  my ship will come in some   
   > day,   and Jesus/   
   > God will finally love and accept us.    Sure pal,   you keep dreaming   
   > that shit.   
   > no wonder shorty said "fuck god himself".     the best thing he ever   
   > said and it's useless.   
      
   ### - methinks ordinary random dreams are us just still talking away to   
   ourselves while we're asleep, our imagination auto-spinning the various   
   scenarios which we then also react to as those thoughts play out, the   
   weirdness of which immediately clears up/goes-away the very moment one   
   becomes lucid...   
      
   iow: that's the exact same kinds of random shit that's more or less   
   continually going through our minds all the time we're awake too, a   
   reflection of it, random musings about random things on & on like that all   
   day long lol, this interspersed with occasional but rare moments of   
   lucidity before we again wander-off into mindless musings about crap   
   haha... a 24/7 condition   
      
   get more lucid in our random dreams, however, and it has the knock-on   
   effect of producing more & more moments of similar/corresponding lucidity   
   during the day too... which 'could' be useful...   
      
   the main point being that lucid dreaming is thus a clue that a   
   corresponding lucidity is also available during waking as well, that such   
   a thing exists to aim for and to experience...   
      
   e.g., (and this is very old indeed) - what is the sound of one hand   
   clapping?   
      
   the answer being: thought-less-ness, or, inner silence = lucidity of a   
   different order during waking...   
      
   quite simples really :)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)