From: slider@anashram.com   
      
   On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:59:32 +0100, chris rodgers    
   wrote:   
      
   > so after about 50 years of farting around with this stuff one comes to a   
   > conclusion:   where's the beef??     where's the payoff here or the gain?   
   > Oh, no gain?   what the fuck,  what am i doing then??   
   > turns out that maybe at best you're just punching the clown   
   > thinking something great is gonna come through dreaming.   
   > Where is the homerun or the grand slam.?   
      
   ### - the merchant mind does commerce and thus 'expects' results in sole   
   terms of profit, gain and/or loss... the fact that people think   
   exclusively in such terms unfortunately (or perhaps even deliberately)   
   limits the scope of their activities and horizons to the world of reason &   
   rationality alone...   
      
   thus the 'effects' of lucid dreaming (a strictly non-rational pursuit)   
   can't really be weighed/valued in terms of gain or loss, it's actually   
   about something else entirely: it pertains to a wholly different side to   
   our nature that to this day remains relatively unexplored & mapped, all we   
   consciously know about being in the realm of vague myths & weird legends...   
      
   in your other post (which am also gonna reply to) you merely 'rationalise'   
   it all, something which in effect only removes you from the possibility of   
   ever exploring/probing it further; rationally it's all nonsense and   
   meaningless so why bother because there's no profit in it etc etc... so   
   the computer just says: No.   
      
   iow: there's really only one way to understand it and that's by actually   
   'doing' it...   
      
   'understanding' it then, initially follows along behind the experience   
   itself, until after a few experiences wondering and understanding begin to   
   coincide and thus one begins to realise the answers while still only   
   asking the questions... questions about life, the universe & everything,   
   and of oneself being alive within it all begins to take on new meaning...   
      
   that what such an experience 'leads' to (or results in then) is thus a   
   completely different knowledge-set, one not based on clumsily figuring   
   things out but on a form of 'direct-knowing'   
      
   which i realise sounds preposterous to the rational mind (after all,   
   there's no profit in it so why bother etc), that is until one finally   
   realises that this 'alternate' knowledge-set is actually 'inclusive' of   
   the standard set and as such is vastly larger than it!   
      
   perforce the ONLY way to REALLY understand all this is to experience it   
   oneself...   
      
   that because it's innate (like walking is innate but still has to be   
   learned) it's not that difficult to do and takes relatively little effort   
   by comparison (on average 2 weeks to make the initial breakthrough) after   
   which one is then in the perfect position to assess it all for oneself   
   rather than taking someone's word for anything...   
      
   to get started, however, you have my book and also the walkthrough videos   
   (videos 1 through 4 is all someone needs to get started = 30 or 40 minutes   
   of video), after which it'll all look very different indeed... the only   
   reason i published it/them being the discovery of a surprisingly more   
   rapid and reliable means of accessing it via hypnagogic images...   
      
   try it and then join the debate ;)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)