XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.religion.shamanism   
   XPost: alt.religion.druid, alt.religion.angels   
   From: slider@anashram.com   
      
   On 27/02/2023 14:27, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:32:00 +0000, slider    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 27/02/2023 06:39, Venus as a Boy wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> When you are eating a cake you are defined as having schizophrenia by   
   >>> neuroscientists, because a not necessaraly excessive output of dopamine   
   >>> signalises a schizophrenic mind and dopamine gets released in higher   
   >>> amounts than normal when you are eating a cake!   
   >>   
   >> ### - imho some of these 'doctors' should be forced to take a dose of   
   >> their own damn medicine heh...  medicine that does nada except damp-down   
   >> the over-emotional & mental reactions of their patient, who is obviously   
   >> having an intensely frightening experience and can't cope...   
   >>   
   >> iow, it's a 'fear' reaction to unusual perceptions, and that person then   
   >> entering into a 'fight or flight' mode, that has them releasing all   
   >> kinds of chemicals into their system, NOT the other way around!   
   >>   
   >> or the next thing they'll be saying is that cake 'causes'   
   >> schizophrenia??? :)))   
   >>   
   >> not really understanding exactly what schizophrenia is, or why it   
   >> happens, all these doctors can thus do is to treat a person's   
   >> emotional/mental side-effects... ohhh, you've got too juch dopamine, i   
   >> see, well this drug we've got blocks it and then you will calm down, the   
   >> hallucinations will still be there but you'll stop freaking out etc etc,   
   >> blah blah blah...   
   >>   
   >> i.e., 'anyone' who has an 'intense' experience (even eating some lovely   
   >> cake) will perforce have higher dopamine levels for a while afterwards,   
   >> ditto if they jump out of a plane and parachute down it's their own   
   >> body's automatic reaction, dopamine under normal circumstances working   
   >> with the pleasure/pain pathways and cake is full of lovely calories so   
   >> the body recognises this and signals for more by releasing dopamine and   
   >> the person gets an emotional reward, a system that also feeds back in   
   >> reverse to produce revulsion should you accidententally find yourself   
   >> eating a turd haha - YUK! - the body clearly letting you know it doesn't   
   >> want any more of THAT shit! lol :)))   
   >>   
   >> that there must have been a time in our species' ancient history when we   
   >> completely depended on this feedback system just in order to survive, a   
   >> system which still remains intact within us today albeit now heavly   
   >> build upon/modified since to relate to more complex/subtle situations &   
   >> things... (wow i gots a new CD! dopamine flushhhh... feels cool)   
   >>   
   >> and that accordingly, probably the 'first' thing these doctors should   
   >> offer their new schizophrenic patients is some form of 'cognitive   
   >> therapy' to alter their emotional/mental 'over-reactions' to having some   
   >> hallucinations... it being impossible to reason with someone who is   
   >> literally climbing the walls in sheer terror...   
   >>   
   >> e.g., william burroughs (an american witer from the 50's beat   
   >> generation) who was a heroin junky nearly all his adult life (and lived   
   >> into his 80's) noted in his book 'Junky' that he had never ever met a   
   >> schizophrenic junky? and as such thought that heroin might indeed be a   
   >> cure 'for' schizophrenia...   
   >>   
   >> the person will probably still have hallucinations etc, but they just   
   >> wont give a shit about it anymore lol, will likely even enjoy the   
   >> experience because heroin completely detaches a person from their   
   >> emotions etc, completely! this being the 'real' reason why people like   
   >> heroin because it instantly solves all their emotional/mental problems   
   >> allowing them to cope in a very unusual way by entering into a   
   >> completely 'desire-less' state of awareness! (instant nivana!)   
   >>   
   >> the 'point' being, that a schizophrenic episode is kinda like taking a   
   >> large dose of magic mushrooms or lsd: for a while one sees, thinks &   
   >> feels way 'beyond' the usual range of perception! and ALL one can really   
   >> DO under such circumstances is to wait it out until it wears-off (the   
   >> idea behind taking mushrooms being to actually enjoy the experience   
   >> while it lasts...)   
   >>   
   >> ditto then with any similar event, including schizophrenia...   
   >>   
   >> that all the person has to DO is to calmly wait it out until it goes   
   >> away again, the calmer/more detached the person is about it is probably   
   >> the faster they will return to normal, getting into fight/flight mode   
   >> having the opposite effect, maybe even damaging/scarring them so best   
   >> avoided...   
   >>   
   >> what schizophrenia actually 'is' is, i think, another subject altogether   
   >> and NOT what doctors have turned it all into...   
   >>   
   >> the real question being: what potential 'use' has schizophrenia got in   
   >> the hands of someone who can not only 'accept' their condition, but who   
   >> can also learn to handle it as one expertly handles 'any' altered state   
   >> of awareness, knowing that it's only a temporary state that will soon   
   >> wear off...   
   >>   
   >> thus in one sense it is tripping (whatever tripping actually is) without   
   >> the use of any drugs...   
   >>   
   >> a natural high, that no one currently understands/accepts or knows what   
   >> to do with :)   
   >   
   > What is schizophrenia?  What the "voices" tell me:   
      
   ### - hi noah, your 'voices' are apparently misleading you in this   
   matter on several key points here (pls see below)   
      
      
      
   > 1) it is genetic.  You inherit a tendency which surfaces in certain   
   > environments.  No "certain environment" no schizophrenia.   
      
   ### - there apparently is indeed a small genetic link in the majority of   
   cases but this doesn't explain what schizophrenia itself is, an   
   inherited tendancy towards it is acceptable though but not neccessarily   
   guaranteed... certain poor, perhaps deprived backgrounds leading to   
   neglect/malnutrition etc, coupled with mixed signals (usually from the   
   mother, as in: i love you that's why i have to hurt you etc) going a   
   long way to someone eventually having difficulty telling reality from   
   delusion, their 'base' awareness never being quite fully defined, or   
   even misaligned...   
      
      
      
      
   > 2) The trigger environment typically involves some sort of abuse as a   
   > child.  The child thinks "this can't be happening to me", and so   
   > starts to believe that it isn't because it can't.   
      
   ### - methinks you're maybe talking about something else here,   
   diassociation isn't schizophrenia either? i.e., schizophrenics lose   
   touch with reality and as such can't tell what's real from delusion,   
   thus they often genuinely believe their delusions and start acting them   
   out...   
      
      
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)