XPost: alt.support.depression, alt.support.schizophrenia, alt.bu
dha.short.fat.guy
XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism
From: slider@anashram.com
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 23:18:21 +0100, Julian wrote:
> On 13/08/2024 23:13, slider wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:47:40 +0100, Julian
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/08/2024 22:37, one wrote:
>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>> slider wrote:
>>>>>>> one wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When winners exist, losers exist
>>>>>>>> which sounds kinda like a game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ### - debating isn't a game,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, for you, it isn't or
>>>>>> by definition it isn't, then,
>>>>>> it might be semantics or
>>>>>> simply how you see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The debate that is a debate
>>>>>> might be great or simply for fun, imo.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - that movie is based on a true story,
>>>> Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> it actually happened,
>>>> Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> a lowly
>>>>> black college beat white harvard university in a debate about what
>>>>> the
>>>>> definition of morality is and is not,
>>>> What is, what was, is and was.
>>>> People used to, own, people, naturally.
>>>> Now-a-daze people, own, other animals and
>>>> apparently, on average may deem it, okay.
>>>> Fish in tanks, birds in cages, dogs on leashes
>>>> cats kept in houses and horses whipped,
>>>> raced and who dares to say right is
>>>> wrong and rungs ring a bell eh.
>>>>
>>>>> that regardless of everything being
>>>>> against them in a white man's world
>>>> Stereotype noted.
>>>>
>>>>> the higher principles won the day and
>>>>> the so-called white version of morality lost...
>>>> Not sure about the topic at this point.
>>>>
>>>>> much of this later
>>>>> contributing to the civil rights movement that argues everyone is
>>>>> deserving of good/fair treatment and not just a privileged few...
>>>> Animal rights. Children's rights. Women's rights.
>>>> When right exists, everyone knows, wrong emerges.
>>>> The Tao Te Ching, Chapter 2, could apply.
>>>>
>>>>> iow: this is an example of how human knowledge advances on a daily
>>>>> basis
>>>>> in the daily waking world, and it applies to both nations and to
>>>>> individuals...
>>>> Teh struggles continue. Teh, aka Te/De,
>>>> at times translated as Virtue, Power, may
>>>> be viewed as emerging after the Way is lost.
>>>>
>>>>>>> it's an intelligent way of getting at the
>>>>>>> truth of an issue, a win-win scenario for both sides because
>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>> comes out the better for it even if they lose the debate,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To surrender to win occurs at times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To let go and allow to be. A question
>>>>>> emerges regarding higher powers or a
>>>>>> Higher Power if there is a singularity.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - on the human stage just letting things be results in the strong
>>>>> ruling the weak and the law of 'fist' (as in might is right etc)
>>>>> ruling
>>>>> the world, that being exactly what the nazi's believed in... and if
>>>>> the
>>>>> world hadn't gotten together and opposed them we'd all be speaking
>>>>> german
>>>>> now and going to military schools!
>>>> The world sounds kinda like a thing. Who your, we, is,
>>>> who would be speaking German if not some other language
>>>> might be a kind of a sort of a mental noun-thing. Ore knots.
>>>>
>>>>> e.g., you mention the tao fairly often as being a narrative
>>>> Tao is a word.
>>>> I wouldn't say Tao is a narrative.
>>>>
>>>>> you like/are attracted to?
>>>> The newsgroup, alt.philosophy.taoism
>>>> is the group from which one is posting. One being
>>>> me of all beings as wells well and dwellings vary.
>>>>
>>>>> (nada wrong with that) but under the nazis anything like
>>>>> that would have been banned and eventually eradicated
>>>>>
>>>>> that struggle is still continuing btw...
>>>> Prior to reading how it still remains unstill instills.
>>>> To have a cause at times is able to motivate people.
>>>>
>>>>>>> the main thing
>>>>>>> is the argument has evolved some, and even if nothing definitive is
>>>>>>> arrived at, at least one argument (the losing one) has been
>>>>>>> dismissed
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the equation no matter how much appeal (emotional or otherwise) it
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> have previously had... and overall that's an advance see?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given various presumptions, yes.
>>>>>> Science and mathematics may use such a way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Psychology might depend more on a society
>>>>>> in terms of what is defined as well or ill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Debates about what is right and/or wrong
>>>>>> might change over time, reverse, modified, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - doesn't matter what culture you come from, some things are
>>>>> universal
>>>>> like don't do any harm, or don't be a low life...
>>>> If such a paradigm is your, universal,
>>>> then, t'hats your hat, flag and/or struggle
>>>> unless it isn't a struggle.
>>>> To be content could be a Taoist mode.
>>>> Teh, De, Te, emerges after Tao, aka Dao is lost.
>>>>
>>>>>>> both sides get a
>>>>>>> win regardless of the outcome because knowledge has been advanced a
>>>>>>> fraction...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeing as how you appear to see debate happening,
>>>>>> thus far, in this thread, what new knowedge have you seen?
>>>>>
>>>>> ### - not much, yet (smile...) there's a certain inertia that has to
>>>>> be
>>>>> overcome/resisted first as people are sticklers for what they know,
>>>>> or
>>>>> think/believe they know, so being opened minded has to come first
>>>>> before
>>>>> anything new can enter in (ref. old zen story about needing to first
>>>>> empty
>>>>> one's cup)
>>>> Okay.
>>>>
>>>>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to
>>>>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people
>>>>> don't
>>>>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've
>>>>> gots it
>>>>> all nailed down already...
>>>> I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup
>>>> being as you say it appears to you to be.
>>>> You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens
>>>> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.
>>>>
>>>>>>> there's a very nice movie about it that explains the above in
>>>>>>> detail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just cut through all the hollywood-esq bs added to sell movies,
>>>>>>> and at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> heart of it there's human awareness, discipline & advancement...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ok.ru/video/2387686132251
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website has something about cookies being required.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (an important movie)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Debaters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No idea how that relates to WILD nor Christ
>>>>>> or cosmic consciousness, mental illness, healing
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