XPost: alt.support.depression, alt.support.schizophrenia, alt.bu   
   dha.short.fat.guy   
   XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism   
   From: being@apolka.sign   
      
   slider wrote:   
   > one wrote:   
   >> slider wrote:   
      
   >>> the higher principles won the day and   
   >>> the so-called white version of morality lost...   
   >>   
   >> Not sure about the topic at this point.   
   >   
   >### - we've been playing around with language & perception in order to   
   >perhaps arrive at a higher truth/understanding, you avoiding being pinned   
   >down by escaping-off into ambiguity & plays on words, whereas my basic   
   >argument has been steadily along the lines of, e.g., this quote:   
   >   
   >"Anyone who perceives their shadow and light simultaneously sees   
   >themselves from two sides and thus gets in the middle." --Carl Jung ;)   
   >   
   >this spelling/marking the 'end' of the dualistic approach...   
      
   You seemed to be seeing a white   
   version of morality and higher principles   
   won the day. I might be able to see what you   
   say and then again, call it a selective perception.   
      
   >>> i mean, i look around here and everyone's cups are already filled to   
   >>> overflowing, there's no room for anything more or different, people   
   >>> don't   
   >>> like/resent anything 'different', they like to feel that they've gots it   
   >>> all nailed down already...   
   >>   
   >> I don't know about, everyone. Nor everyone's cup   
   >> being as you say it appears to you to be.   
   >>   
   >> You appear to have a projection screen projecting screens   
   >> that screen what apears to you to be, stereotyping.   
   >   
   >### - no, taking into account that words & terms are not (and cannot be)   
   >definitive, and are in fact often completely misleading, we're thus forced   
   >to use language/words in novel ways to communicate...   
      
   Okay.   
      
   >iow: we can't take anything said literally, knowing its limitations all we   
   >can honestly do is to 'allude' to certain things people already know in a   
   >variety of ways, knowing that the other person understands what one is   
   >'trying' to say through a veil of inaccurate words... poetry being one   
   >such use of novel language to allude to things that cannot be accurately   
   >defined... thus metaphor, similes & analogy are the only tools we have...   
   >there are always exceptions to any rule but we're not talking about those   
   >(we, for example, might be/represent those exceptions, standing on the   
   >sidelines observing/making-observations)   
      
   Presumptions continue to continue. Axioms,   
   as it were and communicating can be interesting.   
      
   People who were diagnosed with a mental illness,   
   having had a Christ or cosmic consciousness type   
   of experience, may say they are God or a shaman   
   and be unable to communicate how great it is nor   
   heal so-called, average, people who might be   
   perpetuating forms of what is called evil.   
      
   >>>> The world is said to be sacred.   
   >>>> Trying to change it is not advised.   
   >>>   
   >>> ### - are you suggesting/saying that the tibetan buddhists are in error   
   >>> working to enlighten the whole world? that it's not advisable??   
   >>   
   >> Paradigms vary.   
   >>   
   >> I was saying what a saying is   
   >> given a Taoist paradigm, imo.   
   >   
   >### - nevertheless, we still both know what we're talking about in the   
   >context its currently been framed,   
      
   I'm not sure what you are talking about.   
   What occurs to me are techniques, ways.   
      
   Trying to enlighten the world presumes   
   the world is not enlightened.   
      
   From a pov of expanded consciousness, there   
   may be viewed as well as experienced a Self   
   who sees through all eyes and hears with   
   every ear being all beings even being   
   Being, Existence. Figure-ground types   
   of reversals might be common for mystics.   
      
   If there is such a Self, at play, who plays   
   all parts, masking its elves sewing two speak,   
   then to be concerned with enlightenment may   
   be called being a tad bit involved in the play.   
      
   Perspectives vary.   
      
   > you just have a terrible tendency to   
   >keep going-off on irrelevant/dualistic tangents is all,   
      
   To heal some body, whether it be an average   
   number of average people or a so-called individual   
   may have been a topic of this thread.   
      
   > if otoh that's   
   >your way of saying/stating you no longer wish to continue along this line   
   >of thought/thinking then thats fine too, we can stop at any point but your   
   >argument loses the debate...   
      
   You appear to continue to see   
   or think or feel there is a debate.   
      
   I find our conversation being a discussion.   
   For a time being to discuss eternity is curious, imo.   
      
   >>> or does   
   >>> that perhaps only apply to those who don't really know what they're   
   >>> doing,   
   >>> an injunction as such to those people to wait until they 'do' know what   
   >>> they're doing!   
   >>   
   >> When being spontaneous, one does.   
   >> When being drawn by a cause, one does.   
   >>   
   >> How to do without doing, to be in the Zone,   
   >> to transcend right and wrong could be an other   
   >> mode and still yet suggest a duality exists.   
   >   
   >### - the vast majority of humanity lives entirely in a dualistic good/bad   
   >interpretation of life,   
      
   Sounds like hyperbole to me. A statement   
   with presumptions to be taken for granted.   
      
   The vast majority of humanity may live mostly at one   
   with their family and friends without a thought about how   
   they are not-two nor with reflecting on good/bad.   
      
   At various points in their lives, during a day, they may say   
   a phenomenon is good or bad and then forget about it.   
      
   To make a claim about the, vast majority of humanity,   
   could be for the sake of beginning to begin a point.   
      
   >the universe & everything wherein everything has   
   >either a positive/negative value,   
      
   That would take some thought for the, vast majority.   
      
   To suppose average people are always putting values   
   such as positive/negative can be done. And yet,   
   perhaps, usually, there is no such activity going on.   
      
   Things are as they are, mostly all the time,   
   probably, for the vast majority of people.   
      
   To stop and judge could be a beginning of an end   
   of a state of being at one with all there is.   
      
   >philosophies like buddhism and/or the   
   >tao being systems of ideas purporting to exist 'beyond' such a simplistic   
   >approach (there's 2D/dualism which is flat, and then there's 3D buddhism   
   >which has depth)   
      
   To use hyperbole to make a point could work to a point.   
      
   For the average Buddhist there might be Noble Truths,   
   the Fourth of which has a Path with eight rights.   
      
   For a mystical Buddhist, perhaps transcending samsara   
   and entering nirvana occurs from time to a time beyond time.   
      
   Whether people who were diagnosed with having a mental   
   form of being ill go beyond and return, or stay in a state   
   of higher than high, unable to speak and know might   
   be Way beyond healing.   
      
   >>> - iow: don't look for the spiritually advanced among ordinary people,   
   >>> such types are more usually outcasts, tramps, even mentally ill... they   
   >>> never quite 'fit-in', they're outsiders looking in...   
   >>   
   >> I often see the most spiritually advance among ordinary people   
   >> as well as among other people, given an aye to sea.   
   >   
   >### - "out of the mouths of babes & sucklings" ya mean?   
      
   And average people who are actually very wise   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)