XPost: alt.dreams, alt.dreams.castaneda, alt.dreams.edgar-cayce   
   XPost: alt.dreams.lucid.entities, alt.out-of-body, japan.dreams.lucid   
   From: aon2@hotmail.com   
      
   Hi Laura,   
      
   > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Laura wrote:   
      
   >> Ann's hunger-crazed brain wrote   
      
   :) not any more, last week I announced the official end of my fast,   
   joke appreciated though. As a matter of fact my dream experiences are   
   even more unconventional than the ones with the words 'food' and   
   'energy', aren't you curious. I haven't talked much about them yet on   
   a.d.c (at least not at any reasonable length:), haven't found the   
   'time' for what would necessarily end up a long treatise.   
      
   >>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Kellie asked:   
   >>>> LH vaguely replied:   
   >>> Laura's "Archetype" wrote:   
      
   >>> Anyhow, to answer your question:   
   >>> Dreams seem to be a fundamental aspect of having a complex brain   
   >>> structure.  All creatures who do, dream.   
      
   >>> So where do dreams originate? The obvious answer would be that   
   >>> dreaming is a product of the brain performing some sort of task -   
   >>> probably in order to consolidate real life experiences and discard   
   >>> irrelevant information...   
      
   >>> ...  fascinating.. extraordinary complexity of.. brain..   
   >>> combinations.. elements of myth and symbolism..  called   
   >>> Archetypes.. especially evident pantheons of the ancient world..   
   >>> same gods.. So...   
      
   > For one who is wary of the real meaning of every word, you sure did a   
   > sloppy hack-job on what I wrote.   
      
   :) come on, wasn't it funny, I mean, amazing, even after dropping   
   on occasion whole sentences your Logos/meaning was still preserved or   
   at least easily deducible :).   
      
   >>> I suppose the question really is this: Where did the archetypes   
   >>> come from? Are they a product of dreams? Or is it just that they   
   >>> have become so deeply ingrained in all of us over countless   
   >>> generations that our dreams use their symbol-language?   
      
   >> No doubt Laura's "complex brain structure" answer sounds deep,   
   >> modern, fashionable, "obvoius" :), scientific and.. very   
   >> 'informative', you know, because you see, now we finally know (the   
   >> cliches:), now we understand... "dreams' archetypal/fundamental   
   >> aspect", i.e. nothing :).   
      
   > Well, we can't just ignore everything that neuroscience has   
   > discovered lately. You'd be on much firmer ground had this   
   > conversation taken place 20 or even just 10 years ago, but now you   
   > can't ignore it and retain any semblance of being reasonable.   
      
   wow :), like to jump to wild conclusions. {And isn't it better/safer   
   to assume nothing about the background of the other parties. Frankly, I   
   enjoy being considered dumb or unreasonable, moreover it amplifies the   
   effect of shock then, after the surprise discovery that some things're   
   not as they seemed, that appearances can be deceiving.} I mean "ignore   
   everything", did I say that.  The contrary is my view, I prefer to   
   discard nothing, I wouldn't reject even the wildest hypothesis "without   
   proof"... and 95% confidence isn't enough for me, I'm afraid :).   
      
        "Acceptance without proof is the fundamental characteristic of   
        Western religion, Rejection without proof is the fundamental   
        characteristic of Western science."   
   			       Gary Zukav, "The Dancing Wu Li Masters"   
      
   >> Anyway, now it's my turn to make a contribution to this   
   >> "fascinating" labyrinth (of Dreamwords:) and even try to reduce the   
   >> "extraordinary complexity" of the scholarly "brain".   
      
   > So... what, in your opinion, is the function of the stuff inside our   
   > skulls? Maybe you believe, like some did in the dark ages, that it is   
   > one massive mucus gland? :-)   
      
   :) Oh, I see, "I believe... in the dark age.. function", the   
   'goal', i.e. What's the 'purpose' of the gorgeous organ "inside our   
   skulls", that's the question. Actually, have you ever seen a human one,   
   live (i.e. not dead but alive, and not on TV or picturesque textbook   
   drawings), and if, yes, did you manage to see the "obvious complex   
   brain structure", the neural networks perhaps:). Come on, be honest,   
   tell us what did you see/learn, maybe then we'll start having nicer   
   dreams :).   
      
   > Besides, I am not one who glorifies the "scholarly" brain.   
      
   Of course not :), I just made fun of your "scholarly" attempt to use   
   specialized ("complex") terminology, that's all, Not that I didn't like   
   or understand it, it's simply my experience that people tend to be more   
   honest when talking simple words.   
      
   > Rational conscious thought, which I assume is what you refer to by   
   > scholarly, is in fact a very small part of what goes on in the brain.   
   > Less than 10%, certainly. The rest goes on "behind the scenes" as it   
   > were, and is too complex for the puny rational mind to fully   
   > comprehend. Things that people can't comprehend are regarded as   
   > mystical.   
      
   Agreed, yet wouldn't it be nice for this discussion to try and bring to   
   the fore "the rest 90% of what goes on behind the scenes", what:),   
   impossible? And well, would it come as big surprise to you to hear that   
   by a way of 'coincidence' ('friends', you know:) I happen to be keenly   
   aware of the latest experimental discoveries on the 'subconscious'   
   research front. It is just that they do not help me better understand   
   what's really going on... while I'm lucidly dreaming, for example. If   
   you think otherwise, fine, I am all ears, though if you've read my   
   previous posts you'd know that instead of some statistics from   
   experimenting on others I prefer to first trust/"know thyself",   
   dreaming for myself.   
      
   Luckily, during one of my most extraordinary/exciting years (as of   
   yet:) I was dreaming vividly every day, in a time when I had no   
   theoretical preconceptions whatsoever, no idea of what 'castaneda' or   
   'lucid dreams' were, it came from within (or from nowhere:), it just   
   happened.  What startled me then was the incredible ease with which day   
   after day I was able to solve problem after problem from my daily and   
   'other' life, whatever I wished for in a day- or night-dream was   
   becoming true. Funny enough people around me were starting to notice it   
   as well, for some reason I was constantly surrounded by people, day and   
   night, 24/7, and yet I was calm like never before (though quite   
   regularly afterwards:).   
      
   {A recent movie pointer by Slider ("The butterfly effect") has   
   miraculously brought all those happy memories back. It has just touched   
   a very personal cord with me, I mean each time then before going to bed   
   I knew I was going to dream and re-dream this dream or life of mine, I   
   knew I'd be lucid/conscious in there and I knew it'd be hard so I tried   
   to prepare the best I could during the day for the coming virtual   
   'fights' (with what or whom 'it' didn't say:) whose end, even plot, was   
   completely open. It definitely felt like a battle of life and death   
   though, first I was somehow confident I had to change something in this   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)