XPost: alt.dreams.castaneda   
   From: aon2@hotmail.com   
      
   Hi me@privacy,   
      
   can you guess, you've just asked a central question of "current dream   
   research" :), perhaps one with true potential... to send 'extrovert'   
   researchers into paroxysms of rage.. for reasons to be shortly   
   explained (in brief, it tampers with the very definition of their   
   subject 'matter':). Anyway, since you "just wanted to get some opinions   
   and thoughts on this" here am I -- the 'independent' thinker -- jumping   
   in on demand, plus basically, an offer I can't refuse, especially after   
   seeing Laura has made a "memorable" contribution (i.e. replacing your   
   simpler words of "dreaming of day residues" by her favourite "natural   
   hippocampal activity of memory consolidation"; the latter, of course,   
   "having nothing to do with residue":).   
      
   That is :), if you've followed our October exchange ("new to group...",   
   after which I check this group, infrequently, my favourite being   
   a.d.c.) of 'shots' you may be surprised to hear me now actually   
   agreeing with Laura, in general: it's not that "current researchers   
   have debunked the day residue theory of dreams"... but more like their   
   newer, more "current theories" or preferred "hippocampal" words have   
   come in its stead. Of course, little has changed in the essence, in   
   their core belief that sees dream sleep/reality as a 'mere' (though   
   sometimes 'necessary':) byproduct of the way more real waking   
   life/reality. Meaning their 'extrovert' causation always goes one way:   
   from the observed outside causes/factors/reasons to the inner state of   
   the 'system'.   
      
   {Just like in the 'trivial' assumption that our physical problems have   
   little to do with the mind, 'objective' illnesses falling from the sky   
   and certainly independent of medical propaganda/words, concerns,   
   warnings, suggestions, examinations (.., research:). E.g. the high   
   correlation between frequency of doctor visits and chronic illnesses   
   must be entirely due to the latter, the sorry state of the patient was   
   first, we should never dare think of causation running the other way   
   round, i.e. from increased medical thoughts/information/visitations to   
   more health problems. But why not, I mean, it could as well be like the   
   opposite of that mysterious "placebo" ("effect") that heals at least   
   (often more, medical acupuncture might be a case in point, e.g. see the   
   "Mysterious needle effect" from February 11, a.d.c) 35% of the cases,   
   you think we know why.}   
      
   It is just their preferred direction of causality (has to do with the   
   basic axioms of the scientific method) that scientists like and   
   consequently try to see/establish everywhere: their reasons (even   
   neuro-consciousness:) start from the independently observable 'reality   
   without' (e.g. the objective "organized matter":) to then move to the   
   subjective reality within, but not the other way round, our dreams   
   should have no bearing on the way we perceive 'reality'. Which is kind   
   of funny considering that almost everything we feel, see or touch in   
   our complex nature/reality of today was once conceived in a dream.   
      
   {The modern matrix has had many architects like Aristotle, da Vinci,   
   Newton... Even Hitler, for that matter, in a previous post (to a.d.c.   
   from April 19: "Who is the modern day discoverer of the AP") I traced   
   the conception of his dearest children, or how the Creator said 'Be!'   
   to his "Beetle" (Volkswagen or people's car), to his "autobahns", his   
   "full employment" and his machine state. And it all became true, you   
   know, first it was just a 'dream within', and then suddenly...   
   elsewhere in 'reality without'. As you might have guessed, this movie   
   talk (which I like:) of "architects, matrices, prisons for our mind" is   
   derived from the "Matrix" trilogy, to which this year were dedicated at   
   least two full chronicles: the "Reservoir of Dreams - letting 'death'   
   go", 12 Apr, and the "Reservoir of Dreams - Word skepticism" from 13   
   Apr 2004.}   
      
   In a broader sense, and "as evidenced by the amount and nature of the   
   [empirical] activity", the 'extrovert' symptoms (of galactic escapism:)   
   are part of the usually permanent aversion to something   
   unpleasant--knowing thyself. Consequently :), they've just set the   
   priorities 'right': explore/dissect the gorgeous universe outside   
   instead of the frightening one within. There lie the true grounds for   
   acquiring the persistent habit of thinking about... 'independent'   
   chance before choice, brain before soul, the 'objective' matter over   
   the nasty 'subjective' mind. And since we're dealing with true masters   
   of disguise their assumptions may assume many forms, often creeping in   
   through the back/implicit door. Speaking of dream research, for   
   example, the customary one-way-causality (day-dreams causing   
   night-dreams, and not vice versa:) 'protrudes' whenever we hear the..   
      
   Neuroscientist:	Dreaming is a product of the brain performing some sort   
   		of task in order to consolidate real life experiences   
   		and discard irrelevant information. Our dreams are just   
   		a brain/hippocampal activity consolidating our   
   		eventful day memories.   
      
   Whence we can 'immediately conclude' (by the universal law of word   
   impressions:) that sleep experiences, on the other hand, must be dead   
   unreal. I mean, dreaming is no real life but just an 'uneventful' task,   
   dream reality merely a life-supporting activity of, say, discarding   
   irrelevant information (or exformation:). Dreams are inexplicable   
   anomalous experiences ("the eventuality of an anomaly inherent to the   
   programming of the Matrix" per the Architect "Reloaded":) that are   
   better quickly forgotten, we'd rather spare our aware consciousness for   
   the only "eventful" reality that matters.  It is only wake experiences   
   that must be the truly real-life ones and that should count as relevant   
   information, the 'open-eyed' "reality" being pretty much the only one   
   that 'nervous' empirical researchers could handle or... bear, so "mad   
   philosophers" confidently jumped into their "dream", to then even   
   forget ever making a conscious choice :).   
      
   {Plato called them "lovers of sights", he had so many jokes for them,   
   and especially for the grand Aristotelian ambition to be given the   
   presidency of the Academy, allegedly one of his cleverest students, too   
   bloody serious though.}   
      
      
   			     The purpose :)   
      
   Now I'm about to tell you why 'I needed' this lengthy 'introduction':).   
   On one hand, I put my skeptical ego on display, i.e. defended previous   
   positions, "opinions, thoughts" expressed in the widely crossposted   
   October (13th) thread "new to group--with lots of questions" on dreams;   
   nothing surprising so far. The real novelty though was that the "fate"   
   intro (opening Beethoven's "Fifth Symphony", joke aside, I'm now   
   listening to his "Fate knocking at the door":) was, on the other hand,   
   my tried and true recipe/medicine against premature reason-fit, or a   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)