XPost: alt.dreams.castaneda   
   From: aon2@hotmail.com   
      
   Hi SupermanSlyr,   
      
   "Is it true you could stop writing in your dream journal"? And if   
   indeed, yes, are you sure "you'd then soon forget that dream"?   
      
   Let me tell you first how much I liked your "Hello" to a.d.lucid from   
   November 13 ("Aware while Zzz" thread:), both style and substance :),   
   quite an achievement for someone "new to newsgroups". And rest assured   
   your lucid dreaming experience does not "seem like science fiction" to   
   me, it is feasible... even without the "journal" crutches, go figure.   
   That is :), I wouldn't be writing this reply if there wasn't something   
   I disagreed with: just like Kaycee I too "have found a dream journal is   
   not essential for successful lucid dreaming." I could even go further   
   in saying the opposite might be true, but only a conjecture.   
      
        CHOI: Hey, it just sounds to me like you need to unplug, man.   
      
   Basically, you sound to me like someone hopelessly dependent on the   
   Logos system, desperately attached to "your best weapon, a dream   
   journal". And what if a robber broke into your house and stole exactly   
   those precious diaries of yours, end of your world maybe? Or perhaps   
   then you'll "know thyself" and realize oursouls do not forget anything   
   of importance, the (intent:) fear of forgetting being pretty much the   
   only one I can see standing in the way.. of our remembering anything we   
   like from our dream, or other, life. We (or our soulful body:) can't   
   just (blissfully:) forget the dream/experiences in our life, even the   
   nastiest ones, I'm afraid. Of course, and speaking from personal   
   experience, there are such momentary lapses of memory (and reason:) but   
   nothing like permanent forgetting, only the sweet illusion thereof.   
      
   {Even if brainy scientists try to convince us otherwise... e.g. of the   
   limited ability (capacity) of the gorgeous organ (hard-drive), so let   
   us instead be afraid to trust our mind and choose the (false:) security   
   of some external storage devices.  The irony is researchers may later   
   change their 'dotage' minds, for example when suddenly vivid memories   
   of earliest childhood start springing out of the most retired and   
   inmost parts of us.}   
      
   Or don't know, perhaps we can forget if we strongly believe (wish:) we   
   can, have to try... to finally focus only on the most important things   
   in life and totally disregard the tiny 'unimportant' bits (or just   
   relocate the nasty memories to another area of the 'brain' called the   
   subconscious:).   
      
   Anyway, the method of consulting diaries years after the event rests on   
   the (untenable:) assumption that what we wrote/nailed down back then   
   when we were six, ten or twenty was absolutely true :), once and for   
   all.. time. In order to believe so, however, we have first to truly   
   believe in the divine Truth and Goodness of the Word, only then could   
   "a dream journal help in multiple areas in our life".. on the premises   
   that our 'objective' Language and 'absolute' understanding thereof were   
   space/time/age independent, like truly universal constants. Speaking of   
   memories this problem with the physical dream carrier boils down   
      
      
   		     to trust the Word or thysoul?   
      
   Instead of just trusting our lucid mind you advised "your students over   
   and over to write down their dreams in a dream journal" made of a bunch   
   of meaningless characters scribbled on a holy sheet of paper. That is,   
   advising the crippled (amnesia-struck:) to embrace the only fix, the   
   saving crutches of the written Word (Logos, Meaning, Thought, Concept,   
   Language). The same Logos which, when examined closely, turned out much   
   more relative than I could imagine (in my wildest dreams:), its   
   impotence was revealed "over and over" in numerous a.d.castaneda   
   threads. In short, one conclusion was that words are not to be trusted,   
   far from being able to depict (and fix:) the actual   
   dream/reality/feelings/experiences.  More often than not the written   
   description will be downright wrong or distorted, incorrect, imprecise,   
   irrelevant and incomplete version, image, representation,   
   interpretation of the real thing. Or just another beautiful Logos   
   illusion that may later take on a life of its own: we'll reinforce it   
   each time we re-read the journal "over and over" before "kicking in".   
      
   That was also what, perhaps the only thing, I didn't like in the movie   
   "Butterfly effect", this emphasis on the 'catapulting' diary. Carlos   
   Castaneda too advised his followers to "recapitulate the memorable   
   events" by means of rigorous lists (of people you've met, events...),   
   which inevitably leads one to a, to me unnecessary, preoccupation with   
   Language; and is much less fun by the way, I mean do you enjoy writing   
   all the time (codifying, piling the documented evidence:) instead of   
   dreaming the dream. And isn't it easier to instead teach the 'brain' to   
   recall whatever we like, on demand. If you think about it, isn't   
   ultimately the mind that is trans/tele-porting us back to the memorable   
   (dream) event, even if we choose to trigger the recollection by means   
   of some 'intelligent' piece of paper. In other words, we can just as   
   well train the mind itself to be the dream trigger catapulting us   
   backward, or even forward (flying on the wings of soul-memory:).   
      
   Having said that :), can you remember your first dream ever?   
      
   Best,   
   Ann   
      
      
   P.S. Yours and Kaycee's posts follow, though before them here is a   
   selected proof of life and.. obsession:   
      
   		 SupermanSlyr's encomium to The Journal   
      
         Your best weapon is a dream journal, and a positive attitude.  I   
         started keeping a dream journal when I was 6. That was about 15   
         years ago, so I have quite a few journals. I can remember every   
         dream I have, and now I can enter directly into a dream as soon as   
         I close my eyes.   
      
         Yes, it's true I could stop writing in my dream journal, but then   
         I'd soon forget that dream, even if it's several years down the   
         road. So you see a dream journal helps in multiple areas in your   
         life, not just dreams. I have every dream wrote down since I was   
         10, and I'll still have it when I'm an old man, can you say the   
         same?   
      
         The more familiar you get with your dream body, and dream journal,   
         the better you dream detail gets. In reality what's happening is   
         that your dream journal is kicking in, and you memory isn't   
         working in auto mode any more. So you start to remember in color,   
         and so on.   
      
         As I said you are right a dream journal is not that important in   
         just being able to dream lucid. It's much more important that   
         that. A dream journal helps you not only to remember dreams, but   
         it also helps you look back months or even years later.   
      
         One of the biggest problems is people don't remember their   
         dreams. I remember telling my students over and over to write down   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)