XPost: talk.religion.buddhism   
   From: laura@nospam.me   
      
   "Jeet"  wrote in message   
   news:8d1edf6d.0411191058.13ac7cfe@posting.google.com...   
   > "Laura"  wrote in message   
   news:...   
   > [snip]   
   > > > But I think that when I woke up in the afternoon on that day, I was   
   > > > feeling so great and beautiful because my mind compared previous state   
   > > > and present state. And that difference between state of minds gave me   
   > > > feeling of happiness.   
   > >   
   > > Yes, though part of it may have been some euphoria from the injection   
   you   
   > > had.   
   > > Not knowing what exactly you were injected with, I can't be sure.   
   >   
   > It was injection for sleeping instead of sleeping pills.   
      
   Yes, I realize that, but it could have been any number of compounds. Some   
   may cause euphoria more than others.   
      
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > To feel happy, we must go through pains. If the magnitude of pains is   
   > > > higher, later on magnitude of happiness will be higher. We must force   
   > > > our mind to other end of pains and reaction will be opposite end of   
   > > > happiness. Is it so?   
   > >   
   > > Pretty much, I think.   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > And is it so that Siddharth achieved state of happiness and knowledge   
   > > > because he forced himself to go through terrible pains for few years?   
   > >   
   > > It wasn't happiness he achieved. It was enlightenment. Big difference.   
   > > Enlightenment is beyond both happiness and suffering.   
   >   
   > Be frank, do you know what this word *enlightenment* means? And be   
   > frank, do you know what is beyond both happiness and suffering?   
      
   Not from personal experience.   
      
   >   
   > I have attended vipassana camp twice. Vipassana is technic   
   > re-discovered bt Siddharth through which he attined his   
   > *enlightenment*.   
   >   
   > He penetrated deep inside his mind and found that there is *nothing*,   
   > just space, vaccum, emptyness.   
      
   Exactly. Emptyness is the abscence of both happiness and suffering, by   
   definition. Not enough personal experience to speak from, no, but this is   
   what the texts say. Those would be the texts that Buddhism build upon.   
   They do describe this enlightened state of being as "bliss" and "joy", but   
   also carefully point out that it isn't the kind of happiness that you get   
   from something nice happening to you. It is the bliss of the soul - not the   
   mind. A transcendental kind of joy which someone who hasn't experienced it   
   can not imagine.   
   In the same way, there are two different kinds of suffering - that of the   
   mind and body, and that of the soul. To the soul, being in any kind of   
   temporary situation, even a happy one, is ultimately suffering. Seen in this   
   light, the suffering will not end until the cycle of rebirth has been   
   broken, and this is done by shedding all the constructs of the mind, such as   
   ego, and attaining enlightenment.   
   So say the texts.   
      
   >   
   > I think that when Siddharth tortured his body, this empty space (mind)   
   > was filled with pains, sorrow. When that sorrow, pains disappeared, he   
   > has feeling of pure joy just by observing this emptyness.   
   >   
   > Imagine dark night, you are alone. very frightning atmosphere. There   
   > is just space before you. But somehow you thought that there is ghost   
   > before you and it will create utter fear in your mind. Suppose that   
   > state lasted for an hour. When light came, you found that it was not   
   > ghost, there is just empty space.  Your mind will feel happiness, just   
   > by seeing that "empty space"!   
      
   That would be "relief", and would pass quickly. Temporary. Not   
   enlightenment.   
      
   >   
   > So our mind is just empty space. First fill it with pains, sorrow,   
   > thoughts. Then remove it, again there is just empty space. But just   
   > observing that empty space will give you feeling of happiness.   
   >   
   > So trick is to create pains in empty mind and then remove those pains.   
   > You will feel happiness just by observing empty space.   
      
   Not according to Buddhist beliefs.   
   What you're talking about is the "rebound" mechanism of automatically   
   feeling happy when suffering stops. It is the temporary kind, part of the   
   physical world (Maya) and the body/mind. This type of happiness is not   
   enlightenment. It is, actually, described as ignorance and/or passion.   
      
   Since you seem to put much into the hands of religion in your life, I   
   suggest you see an accomplished Buddhist about this stuff. Maybe a monk.   
   Someone who can answer your questions in detail until you comprehend the   
   concepts. Maybe you didn't get enough (or any) personal guidance at that   
   camp you attended?   
      
   >   
   > Someone asked to Siddharth, what happiness there would be in   
   > emptyness, oh my Lord?   
   >   
   > I don't know what answer Siddharth gave, but I think, answer is above.   
      
   So you think you are qualified to guess at the Buddha's answer to this   
   question?   
      
   >   
   > BTW, Laura. You really need to take look at my following message which   
   > I posted yesterday to sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.relativity,   
   > rec.aviation.piloting.   
   >   
   > Read carefully what I have written. You don't need any device. Just   
   > rolling surface which you can make by just two rods and wooden   
   > surface. And you can test solution to Newton's third law of motion any   
   > time. Isn't it *easy*?   
      
   I did read it before you even asked me to, actually :-)   
   It comes as no surprise to me that you could make your cot move by   
   performing sudden jerking motions while sitting on it.   
   It's quite simple to explain as well. You transfer momentum and shift the   
   center of gravity of the whole thing suddenly, and it constitutes a small   
   push against the floor in some direction which is not directly down. This   
   moves the cot slightly. There has been energy transferred from the cot to   
   the floor. Not essentially different from walking, but a lot less practical   
   :-)   
   The proper test of your hypothesis would be to be in absolute Zero-G and   
   vacuum conditions and *then* see if you can move from point A to point B   
   using only sudden movements of your body (your "sudden surge of force"), or   
   any number of rods, sticks, springs, or any other paraphernalia you desire,   
   but without coming into contact with any surfaces.   
      
   >   
   > Do you want to see Matrix, Laura? Unfortunately, no one can be told   
   > what the Matrix is. You will have to *see* it yourself.   
   >   
   > I quote your own words...   
   >   
   > "It would be more accurate, if we must use the matrix analogy, to say   
   > that our perceived selves live in the matrix of the mind, and that we   
   > never actually see the real world as it really is."   
   >   
   > Can you *see* it?   
      
   Better than you know. I suspect that you are being mislead by the "matrix of   
   your mind".   
      
   >   
   > -Abhi.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)