From: Daniel47@teranews.com
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:55:33 -0000, Daniel47@teranews.com
> wrote:
>
>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:40:18 -0000, Daniel47@teranews.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:57:49 -0000, Daniel47@teranews.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looong time since I used a variable transformer (and then it was a
>>>>>> stepped transformer), but you can look at it better by considering
>>>>>> Power, i.e. if your load is using 360 Watts (120v x 3amps), so your
>>>>>> primary winding must be delivering at least that much power, so
>>>>>> 360W/240V gives 1.5Amps (In reality it will be a bit more (1.6A
>>>>>> maybe),
>>>>>> due to losses with-in the transformer).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the transformer would have two totally separate windings, one (the
>>>>>> Primary) creating a magnetic field which induces the voltage into the
>>>>>> secondary winding to supply the loads current.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How the phases relate to each other ....... I think they end up in
>>>>>> phase, depending on the actual load!
>>>>>
>>>>> What confused me about the Variac was it only has one winding.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was a normal transformer stepping from 240 to 120 volts, the
>>>>> currents are easy to work out.
>>>>>
>>>>> But with the Variac, the current going through the load is in the same
>>>>> coil as the primary current from the supply. I would think it goes
>>>>> the
>>>>> *opposite* way if they're in phase, as source and load share a common
>>>>> neutral at the bottom, so this would mean LESS current in total
>>>>> flows in
>>>>> the bottom half of the coil? (Subtracting one current from the
>>>>> other).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gee, didn't even notice you were talking about a Variac!!
>>>>
>>>> O.K., what I explained above was for a normal Transformer which would
>>>> have two connections for the primary winding and two for the secondary
>>>> winding.
>>>>
>>>> Now if you connect the two "Earth" or "Neutral" connections together,
>>>> you do end up with an (effective) three connection device, with both
>>>> the
>>>> primary winding and the secondary sharing the third connection.
>>>>
>>>> I think my mathematics still applies!!
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> The thing is my 3 amps and my 1.5 amps are in the same wire. If they're
>>> opposing that's fine, if they're not it adds to 4.5 amps and gets
>>> hotter. My thinking is when the current is flowing from top to bottom
>>> from the source, that it will flow bottom to top in your secondary (or
>>> in mine back through the same wire, subtracting from the current. (The
>>> source getting the "negative" on the "earth" side at the same time as
>>> the source does the same).
>>>
>>
>> No, think of a see-saw.....The current flows in at the pivot point and
>> each flows towards one of the ends...the 3 amps (being heavier) goes to
>> the bottom end, and flows out to load and back to the pivot point (the
>> "centre tap").
>>
>> The 1.5'ish amps flows out the top, off to the mains supply and back to
>> the pivot point (the "centre tap").
>>
>> The only place that both currents are flowing together is at the centre
>> tap, and then they go their own ways!
>>
>> And, at the centre tap (and only at the tap), you may have both the 1.5
>> amps (main winding current) and the 3 amps (secondary current) flowing,
>> and, depending on the phase angle between them, the amount of current
>> flowing at any particular time, at the centre tap could be anywhere
>> between 1.5 amps and 4.5 amps! But, in the windings the most current
>> would be 3 Amps.
>>
>> Daniel
>
> I think that's the same as what I'm saying.
>
> So 1.5 amps comes from the source to the bottom common point (common
> connection to source and load), and goes through the load to the centre
> tap.
No, the load current goes to the centre point, not the bottom point
>
> The other 1.5 amps the load is getting is circulating through the bottom
> half of the coil: centre tap to bottom, then through the load, back to
> the centre tap.
>
> I make that 1.5 amps in all the coil though.
>
> Another clue might be that the Variac states that 3A LOAD is the
> maximum, no matter what voltage you've selected by moving the centre tap.
>
> There must be a physics book on this somewhere online.....
>
Back to the beginning, forget that you have a Variac, just think of a
transformer with four connection points. The Primary winding is
connected to the mains and the secondary winding is connected to the load.
Current flows from the wall socket, into one terminal of the Primary
winding, flows through the Primary, and current then flows back to the
wall socket. No if's, no maybe's.
The alternating current flowing in the Primary produces a fluctuating
magnetic field around the Primary winding. This fluctuating magnetic
field also cuts the windings of the Secondary winding. This induces a
voltage into the Secondary winding. If there is no load connected, there
is no load current flowing, just voltage at the Secondary winding
terminals. Because the is no load, load current will be zero!
Now when you connect a load to the Secondary winding, the voltage
induced into the Secondary winding causes a current to flow from one end
of the Secondary winding, out through the load and back in the other end
of the secondary winding. Totally separate from the Primary.
The Primary current has not gone anywhere near the secondary winding,
but the Primary current has caused the magnetic field which then caused
the Secondary current.
Daniel
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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