XPost: alt.home.repair, alt.sci.physics, uk.d-i-y   
   From: CFKinsey@military.org.jp   
      
   On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 22:46:36 -0000, NY  wrote:   
      
   > "Commander Kinsey"  wrote in message   
   > news:op.zv46k0w3wdg98l@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...   
   >> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:57:01 -0000, NY  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "Commander Kinsey"  wrote in message   
   >>>> My point was why does the rider need any skill whatsoever?  The device   
   >>>> should move under your centre of gravity automatically.  Perhaps they   
   >>>> have   
   >>>> to be calibrated, and people falling off are borrowing someone else's of   
   >>>> a   
   >>>> different height or weight?   
   >>>   
   >>> I wonder whether a lot of the problems with people falling off are that   
   >>> they   
   >>> are scared when they tilt too far, and instinctively try to correct by   
   >>> adjusting their position instead of standing still and letting the   
   >>> scooter   
   >>> do the adjustments to keep you level, or else they panic and jump off.   
   >>   
   >> When I tried one, when I lost my balance it appeared to scoot off in the   
   >> wrong direction - eg I fell over backwards and the scooter went forwards.   
   >> No idea why - it should have been trying to power itself backwards   
   >> underneath me.   
   >>   
   >>> I probably went through all those stages in the first 30 mins of getting   
   >>> on   
   >>> a Segway for the first time. But after a while you develop and refine the   
   >>> muscle memory to work out just how much you need to move to stay level   
   >>> and   
   >>> not to "fight the machine" - similar to the skills you acquire when you   
   >>> learn to ride a bike.   
   >>   
   >> But with a bike, you have to balance, with these devices surely they   
   >> should be doing the balancing for you?  You should never actually fall   
   >> over, because no matter what you do, it moves under you.   
   >   
   > I imagine the control logic has to be very clever because it has to cope   
   > with a human standing on it. If you had a rigid human-sized figure on it,   
   > and you pushed it so it was about to topple over, the logic would easily   
   > correct for this.   
   >   
   > Now substitute a real person with knee and hip joints, able to adjust their   
   > own balance sideways and fore/aft, and liable to try to make their own   
   > corrections which may counteract those that the scooter tries to make, and   
   > you've complicated things a lot. A Segway, like a bicycle, is inherently   
   > unstable and needs advanced control logic (whether human or computer!) to   
   > keep it upright and to make corrections. I understand that it has now been   
   > found to be a myth that the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plays much of a   
   > part in keeping a bike upright, and that it's all down to minute adjustments   
   > of the steering.   
      
   I knew steering played a big part (I thought about 50%) because I've seen a   
   trick played where people are given bicycles with fixed steering, and it's   
   very difficult to balance on them.  I'm sure the wheels play a big part too -   
   if you remove a bicycle    
   wheel and keep the hub, then spin it holding the wheelnuts, it's difficult to   
   turn over.  Mind you, maybe that's not enough to prevent the weight of the   
   rider falling over too.   
      
   > I wonder how long it will be (if ever!) before the UK allows Segways etc to   
   > be used anywhere other than private property - ie anywhere that the public   
   > might be. We seem to be very backward in allowing them,   
      
   They can go anywhere already - that stupid law is not enforced.   
      
   > whereas an unskilled   
   > person on a bicycle or roller skates or one of those bloody mobility   
   > scooters can easily injure a bystander. I still have the bruise on my hip   
   > and my foot   
      
   I'm sure you'll live.  I do find it amusing that the faster species of scooter   
   (they have 4mph and 8mph versions) are not allowed on pavements, when I can   
   legally run on a pavement at well over 8mph.   
      
   > where an old biddy reversed into me repeatedly in the   
   > supermarket ("the scooter won't move, so I'll keep trying until it does")   
   > and then drove over my foot. And she had the audacity to swear at *me*, when   
   > I was trying very hard not to swear at *her*. She rode off in a huff and hit   
   > a display stand. Poor woman wasn't safe to have control of a scooter.   
      
   I find more problems with pedestrians in supermarkets.  I was pushing my   
   trolley along quite normally the other week when someone walked backwards into   
   the end of it.  He then yelled at me "You could have said something!"  So I   
   replied "Like what?  Get    
   out of my way you incompetant moron?  I hope it's your wife that's driving   
   home...."  She was somewhat amused, and he was not.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)