XPost: alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns
From: lunch@nofreelunch.us
On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:00:46 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote in alt.atheism:
>Free Lunch wrote in
>news:8cifp8du6q2oa0s3mrsn342gbrcslmds2l@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 13:17:23 -0500, RD Sandman
>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>
>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>news:f8afp8trnqnk1gnco20rpnjbqdbhn5i60v@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:10:06 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>
>>>>>Tom McDonald wrote in news:imClt.5$7h5.2
>>>>>@newsfe07.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/17/2013 10:59 PM, linuxgal wrote:
>>>>>>> Free Lunch wrote:
>>>>>>>> They were only highest in nominal dollar amounts. Raising taxes
>on
>>>>>the
>>>>>>>> wealthy and raising spending will help the economy grow without
>>>>>>>> increasing deficits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure. The wealthy will be just SO incentivized to open new
>>>factories
>>>>>>> with higher taxes punching a bigger hole in the bottom of their
>>>boat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They don't seem to have been all that incentivized by previous tax
>>>>>cuts,
>>>>>> and the economy seems to be doing better with some tax hikes.
>>>>>
>>>>>The economy needs both more revenue and less spending.
>>>>
>>>> Not at the moment.
>>>
>>>It will soon.
>>
>> Then we cut the deficit when we need to. In a strong economy, the total
>> debt/GDP should decrease over time so it can increase in a weak
>economy.
>> Reagan kept increasing the debt/GDP even after the recession was over.
>W
>> kept increasing the debt/GDP even after the recession was over.
>>
>>
>> If, as W was, you are adding half a trillion a year to the debt, it is
>> much harder to come out of a recession with added stimulus. W's
>deficits
>> after 2002 were irresponsible.
>>
>
>Hmmmm, Bush's deficits were:
>
>2000 - 236.4B - Surplus (Left over from Clinton)
>2001 - 127.3B - Surplus
>2002 - 157.8B - Deficit
>2003 - 377.6B - Deficit
>2004 - 413B - Deficit
>2005 - 318B - Deficit
>2006 - 248B - Deficit
>2007 - 161B - Deficit (Democrats now own both Houses)
>2008 - 459B - Deficit
>2009 - 1413B - Deficit (Obama took office in January 2009)
>2010 - 1294B - Deficit
>2011 - 1299B - Deficit
>2012 - 1100B - Deficit
>
>Totals - Bush - 3674B in Deficits - 8 years 2002 - 2009
> - Obama - 3693B in Deficits - 3 years 2009 - 2012
>
>Can you point out that half trillion per annum you were talking about? I
>only see two years that even come close....2004 and 2008. Of course we
>could throw in 2009 since that budget was passed on Bush's watch. It is
>also counted in Bush's total and not Obama's above.
According to the Bureau of Public Debt:
Date Total Public Debt Outstanding
09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
01/20/09 10,626,877,048,913
09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
Date Debt Held by the Public
09/29/00 3,405,303,490,221
09/28/01 3,339,310,176,095
09/30/02 3,553,180,247,875
09/30/03 3,924,090,106,881
09/30/04 4,307,344,596,909
09/30/05 4,601,238,726,062
09/29/06 4,843,120,736,192
09/28/07 5,049,305,502,926
09/30/08 5,808,691,665,404
01/20/09 6,307,310,739,682
09/30/09 7,551,861,558,737
Date Intragovernmental Holdings
09/29/00 2,268,874,719,666
09/28/01 2,468,153,236,105
09/30/02 2,675,055,717,722
09/30/03 2,859,140,955,863
09/30/04 3,071,708,099,421
09/30/05 3,331,470,935,661
09/29/06 3,663,853,163,023
09/28/07 3,958,347,869,336
09/30/08 4,216,033,231,509
01/20/09 4,319,566,309,231
09/30/09 4,357,967,444,775
A small part of the FY 2001 debt was Bush-inspired, but not much. The FY
2009 debt increase was shared between Bush and Obama's stimulus. Let's
just look at the other seven years and see that the debt increased $4.2
billion in those seven years. Maybe Bush wasn't counting everything in
his deficit claims.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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