XPost: alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns
From: lunch@nofreelunch.us
On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:59:19 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote in alt.atheism:
>Free Lunch wrote in
>news:pqlfp8hpjdtpu6lnqr1vrj8s3v5dhtkm61@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:00:46 -0500, RD Sandman
>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>
>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>news:8cifp8du6q2oa0s3mrsn342gbrcslmds2l@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 13:17:23 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>
>>>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>>>news:f8afp8trnqnk1gnco20rpnjbqdbhn5i60v@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 11:10:06 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom McDonald wrote in news:imClt.5$7h5.2
>>>>>>>@newsfe07.iad:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2013 10:59 PM, linuxgal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Free Lunch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> They were only highest in nominal dollar amounts. Raising
>>>>>>>>>> taxes
>>>on
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>> wealthy and raising spending will help the economy grow
>>>>>>>>>> without increasing deficits.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure. The wealthy will be just SO incentivized to open new
>>>>>factories
>>>>>>>>> with higher taxes punching a bigger hole in the bottom of their
>>>>>boat.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They don't seem to have been all that incentivized by previous
>>>>>>>> tax
>>>>>>>cuts,
>>>>>>>> and the economy seems to be doing better with some tax hikes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The economy needs both more revenue and less spending.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>>It will soon.
>>>>
>>>> Then we cut the deficit when we need to. In a strong economy, the
>>>> total debt/GDP should decrease over time so it can increase in a
>>>> weak
>>>economy.
>>>> Reagan kept increasing the debt/GDP even after the recession was
>>>> over.
>>>W
>>>> kept increasing the debt/GDP even after the recession was over.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If, as W was, you are adding half a trillion a year to the debt, it
>>>> is much harder to come out of a recession with added stimulus. W's
>>>deficits
>>>> after 2002 were irresponsible.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Hmmmm, Bush's deficits were:
>>>
>>>2000 - 236.4B - Surplus (Left over from Clinton)
>>>2001 - 127.3B - Surplus
>>>2002 - 157.8B - Deficit
>>>2003 - 377.6B - Deficit
>>>2004 - 413B - Deficit
>>>2005 - 318B - Deficit
>>>2006 - 248B - Deficit
>>>2007 - 161B - Deficit (Democrats now own both Houses)
>>>2008 - 459B - Deficit
>>>2009 - 1413B - Deficit (Obama took office in January 2009)
>>>2010 - 1294B - Deficit
>>>2011 - 1299B - Deficit
>>>2012 - 1100B - Deficit
>>>
>>>Totals - Bush - 3674B in Deficits - 8 years 2002 - 2009
>>> - Obama - 3693B in Deficits - 3 years 2009 - 2012
>>>
>>>Can you point out that half trillion per annum you were talking about?
>>> I only see two years that even come close....2004 and 2008. Of
>>>course we could throw in 2009 since that budget was passed on Bush's
>>>watch. It is also counted in Bush's total and not Obama's above.
>>
>> According to the Bureau of Public Debt:
>>
>> Date Total Public Debt Outstanding
>> 09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
>> 09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
>> 09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
>> 09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
>> 09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
>> 09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
>> 09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
>> 09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
>> 09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
>> 01/20/09 10,626,877,048,913
>> 09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
>>
>>
>> Date Debt Held by the Public
>> 09/29/00 3,405,303,490,221
>> 09/28/01 3,339,310,176,095
>> 09/30/02 3,553,180,247,875
>> 09/30/03 3,924,090,106,881
>> 09/30/04 4,307,344,596,909
>> 09/30/05 4,601,238,726,062
>> 09/29/06 4,843,120,736,192
>> 09/28/07 5,049,305,502,926
>> 09/30/08 5,808,691,665,404
>> 01/20/09 6,307,310,739,682
>> 09/30/09 7,551,861,558,737
>>
>> Date Intragovernmental Holdings
>> 09/29/00 2,268,874,719,666
>> 09/28/01 2,468,153,236,105
>> 09/30/02 2,675,055,717,722
>> 09/30/03 2,859,140,955,863
>> 09/30/04 3,071,708,099,421
>> 09/30/05 3,331,470,935,661
>> 09/29/06 3,663,853,163,023
>> 09/28/07 3,958,347,869,336
>> 09/30/08 4,216,033,231,509
>> 01/20/09 4,319,566,309,231
>> 09/30/09 4,357,967,444,775
>>
>>
>>
>> A small part of the FY 2001 debt was Bush-inspired, but not much. The
>> FY 2009 debt increase was shared between Bush and Obama's stimulus.
>> Let's just look at the other seven years and see that the debt
>> increased $4.2 billion in those seven years. Maybe Bush wasn't
>> counting everything in his deficit claims.
>>
>
>They pretty much match what I put up there. I only showed the deficit
>itself and you didn't have to do the math.
How do they match?
Date Total Public Debt Increase in Total Public Debt
09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200 133,285,202,313
09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597 420,772,553,397
09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744 554,995,097,146
09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330 595,821,633,587
09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724 553,656,965,393
09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215 574,264,237,492
09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262 500,679,473,047
09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913 1,017,071,524,650
09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512 1,885,104,106,599
Your deficit numbers always undercounted the increase in debt. You
questioned whether Bush increased debt half a trillion a year, but the
evidence is clear that it was in excesss of half a trillion a year.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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