XPost: alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns
From: lunch@nofreelunch.us
On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:17:02 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote in alt.atheism:
>Free Lunch wrote in
>news:rmnfp89epf3h5u777iq5ms6dujq3m721fa@4ax.com:
Please note:
>>>>>> If, as W was, you are adding half a trillion a year to the debt,
>>>>>> it is much harder to come out of a recession with added stimulus.
>>>>>> W's deficits after 2002 were irresponsible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmmmm, Bush's deficits were:
>>>>>
>>>>>2000 - 236.4B - Surplus (Left over from Clinton)
>>>>>2001 - 127.3B - Surplus
>>>>>2002 - 157.8B - Deficit
>>>>>2003 - 377.6B - Deficit
>>>>>2004 - 413B - Deficit
>>>>>2005 - 318B - Deficit
>>>>>2006 - 248B - Deficit
>>>>>2007 - 161B - Deficit (Democrats now own both Houses)
>>>>>2008 - 459B - Deficit
>>>>>2009 - 1413B - Deficit (Obama took office in January 2009)
>>>>>2010 - 1294B - Deficit
>>>>>2011 - 1299B - Deficit
>>>>>2012 - 1100B - Deficit
>>>>>
>>>>>Totals - Bush - 3674B in Deficits - 8 years 2002 - 2009
>>>>> - Obama - 3693B in Deficits - 3 years 2009 - 2012
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you point out that half trillion per annum you were talking
>>>>>about?
>>>>> I only see two years that even come close....2004 and 2008. Of
>>>>>course we could throw in 2009 since that budget was passed on Bush's
>>>>>watch. It is also counted in Bush's total and not Obama's above.
>>>>
>>>> According to the Bureau of Public Debt:
>>>>
>>>> Date Total Public Debt Outstanding
>>>> 09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
>>>> 09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
>>>> 09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
>>>> 09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
>>>> 09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
>>>> 09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
>>>> 09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
>>>> 09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
>>>> 09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
>>>> 01/20/09 10,626,877,048,913
>>>> 09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Date Debt Held by the Public
>>>> 09/29/00 3,405,303,490,221
>>>> 09/28/01 3,339,310,176,095
>>>> 09/30/02 3,553,180,247,875
>>>> 09/30/03 3,924,090,106,881
>>>> 09/30/04 4,307,344,596,909
>>>> 09/30/05 4,601,238,726,062
>>>> 09/29/06 4,843,120,736,192
>>>> 09/28/07 5,049,305,502,926
>>>> 09/30/08 5,808,691,665,404
>>>> 01/20/09 6,307,310,739,682
>>>> 09/30/09 7,551,861,558,737
>>>>
>>>> Date Intragovernmental Holdings
>>>> 09/29/00 2,268,874,719,666
>>>> 09/28/01 2,468,153,236,105
>>>> 09/30/02 2,675,055,717,722
>>>> 09/30/03 2,859,140,955,863
>>>> 09/30/04 3,071,708,099,421
>>>> 09/30/05 3,331,470,935,661
>>>> 09/29/06 3,663,853,163,023
>>>> 09/28/07 3,958,347,869,336
>>>> 09/30/08 4,216,033,231,509
>>>> 01/20/09 4,319,566,309,231
>>>> 09/30/09 4,357,967,444,775
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A small part of the FY 2001 debt was Bush-inspired, but not much.
>>>> The FY 2009 debt increase was shared between Bush and Obama's
>>>> stimulus. Let's just look at the other seven years and see that the
>>>> debt increased $4.2 billion in those seven years. Maybe Bush wasn't
>>>> counting everything in his deficit claims.
>>>>
>>>
>>>They pretty much match what I put up there. I only showed the deficit
>>>itself and you didn't have to do the math.
>>
>> How do they match?
>>
>> Date Total Public Debt Increase in Total Public
>> Debt 09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
>> 09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
>> 133,285,202,313 09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
>> 420,772,553,397 09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
>> 554,995,097,146 09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
>> 595,821,633,587 09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
>> 553,656,965,393 09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
>> 574,264,237,492 09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
>> 500,679,473,047 09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
>> 1,017,071,524,650 09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
>> 1,885,104,106,599
>>
>> Your deficit numbers always undercounted the increase in debt. You
>> questioned whether Bush increased debt half a trillion a year, but the
>> evidence is clear that it was in excesss of half a trillion a year.
>>
>
>Not quite. You said he ran deficits of a half trillion per year.
>Deficits (and surpluses) are run against the budget. Overall debt which
>you are showing is not. It is an overall cost of government minus
>revenue. I showed you the deficits against the budget.
>
>If you wish to see this clearly, look at Clintons surpluses. The debt
>went up every year under Clinton. If Clinton's surpluses his last couple
>of years in office were true and actual surpluses you would have seen a
>drop in the debt. The difference you are asking about between us is off-
>budget items.
>
>Here...from the same source:
>
>09/30/2012 16,066,241,407,385.89
>09/30/2011 14,790,340,328,557.15
>09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
>09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
>09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
>09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
>09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
>09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
>09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
>09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
>09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
>09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
>09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
>09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
>09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
>09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
>09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
>09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
>09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
>09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
>09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
>09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
>
>Now, look at Clinton's years in office. Tell me when the debt went down
>and his administration didn't add to that debt. He cam pretty close a
>couple of times, but he didn't have a big enough surplus to cover the off
>budget costs.
The debt only went down if you net the intragovernmental debt against
the general debt. Of course if you net that we don't have a $16.7T debt
right now, either.
05/16/2013:
Current
Debt Held by the Public 11,867,088,850,551.92
Intragovernmental Holdings 4,867,719,794,096.15
Total Public Debt Outstanding 16,734,808,644,648.07
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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