XPost: alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns
From: me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net
"RD Sandman" wrote in message
news:XnsA1C5A9FBCA523hopewell@216.196.121.131...
> "Scout" wrote in
> news:knbah4$ja4$1@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> "RD Sandman" wrote in message
>> news:XnsA1C57EFFC4BE1hopewell@216.196.121.131...
>>> Free Lunch wrote in
>>> news:eo4ip89egj1n05i9freal2ed4d29p0baor@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 12:58:08 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>
>>>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>>>news:qrthp8tnn097t03tkum67nrm1s2uge12k3@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:44:38 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>>>>>news:nd2gp8tcq1si9udrkfhh6mglqbg7qdd96v@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 16:17:02 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Free Lunch wrote in
>>>>>>>>>news:rmnfp89epf3h5u777iq5ms6dujq3m721fa@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please note:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If, as W was, you are adding half a trillion a year to the
>>>>>debt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is much harder to come out of a recession with added
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus. W's deficits after 2002 were irresponsible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hmmmm, Bush's deficits were:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2000 - 236.4B - Surplus (Left over from Clinton)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2001 - 127.3B - Surplus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2002 - 157.8B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2003 - 377.6B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2004 - 413B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2005 - 318B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2006 - 248B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2007 - 161B - Deficit (Democrats now own both Houses)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2008 - 459B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2009 - 1413B - Deficit (Obama took office in January
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2009) 2010 - 1294B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2011 - 1299B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>2012 - 1100B - Deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Totals - Bush - 3674B in Deficits - 8 years 2002 - 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Obama - 3693B in Deficits - 3 years 2009 - 2012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Can you point out that half trillion per annum you were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking about?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I only see two years that even come close....2004 and 2008.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>course we could throw in 2009 since that budget was passed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>on Bush's watch. It is also counted in Bush's total and not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Obama's above.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> According to the Bureau of Public Debt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date Total Public Debt Outstanding
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
>>>>>>>>>>>> 01/20/09 10,626,877,048,913
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date Debt Held by the Public
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/00 3,405,303,490,221
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/01 3,339,310,176,095
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/02 3,553,180,247,875
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/03 3,924,090,106,881
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/04 4,307,344,596,909
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/05 4,601,238,726,062
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/06 4,843,120,736,192
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/07 5,049,305,502,926
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/08 5,808,691,665,404
>>>>>>>>>>>> 01/20/09 6,307,310,739,682
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/09 7,551,861,558,737
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date Intragovernmental Holdings
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/00 2,268,874,719,666
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/01 2,468,153,236,105
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/02 2,675,055,717,722
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/03 2,859,140,955,863
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/04 3,071,708,099,421
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/05 3,331,470,935,661
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/29/06 3,663,853,163,023
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/07 3,958,347,869,336
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/08 4,216,033,231,509
>>>>>>>>>>>> 01/20/09 4,319,566,309,231
>>>>>>>>>>>> 09/30/09 4,357,967,444,775
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A small part of the FY 2001 debt was Bush-inspired, but not
>>>>>>>>>>>> much. The FY 2009 debt increase was shared between Bush and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's stimulus. Let's just look at the other seven years
>>>>>>>>>>>> and see that the debt increased $4.2 billion in those seven
>>>>>>>>>>>> years. Maybe Bush wasn't counting everything in his deficit
>>>>>>>>>>>> claims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>They pretty much match what I put up there. I only showed the
>>>>>>>>>>>deficit itself and you didn't have to do the math.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do they match?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date Total Public Debt Increase in
>>>>>>>>>> Total Public Debt 09/29/00 5,674,178,209,887
>>>>>>>>>> 09/28/01 5,807,463,412,200
>>>>>>>>>> 133,285,202,313 09/30/02 6,228,235,965,597
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 420,772,553,397 09/30/03 6,783,231,062,744
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 554,995,097,146 09/30/04 7,379,052,696,330
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 595,821,633,587 09/30/05 7,932,709,661,724
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 553,656,965,393 09/29/06 8,506,973,899,215
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 574,264,237,492 09/28/07 9,007,653,372,262
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 500,679,473,047 09/30/08 10,024,724,896,913
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1,017,071,524,650 09/30/09 11,909,829,003,512
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1,885,104,106,599
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your deficit numbers always undercounted the increase in debt.
>>>>>>>>>> You questioned whether Bush increased debt half a trillion a
>>>>>>>>>> year, but the evidence is clear that it was in excesss of half
>>>>>>>>>> a trillion a year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Not quite. You said he ran deficits of a half trillion per
>>>>>>>>>year. Deficits (and surpluses) are run against the budget.
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