XPost: alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism, talk.politics.guns   
   From: me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net   
      
   "Jeanne Douglas"  wrote in message   
   news:hlwdjsd2-149560.19095522052013@news.giganews.com...   
   > In article   
   > ,   
   > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:   
   >   
   >> In article , "Scout"   
   >>  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> > "Jeanne Douglas"  wrote in message   
   >> > news:hlwdjsd2-F24A0E.23010721052013@news.giganews.com...   
   >> > > In article , Zepp  wrote:   
   >> > >   
   >> > >> On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:11:13 -0700, Jason wrote:   
   >> > >>   
   >> > >> > In article , Zepp    
   >> > >> > wrote:   
   >> > >> >   
   >> > >> >> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:22:42 -0700, Jason wrote:   
   >> > >> >>   
   >> > >> >> > In article , Tom McDonald   
   >> > >> >> >  wrote:   
   >> > >> >> >   
   >> > >> >> >> On 5/21/2013 9:41 PM, RD Sandman wrote:   
   >> > >> >> >> > Tom McDonald  wrote in   
   >> > >> >> >> > news:reUmt.11860$v46.8618@newsfe13.iad:   
   >> > >> >> >> >   
   >> > >> >> >> >> On 5/21/2013 7:17 PM, Jason wrote:   
   >> > >> >> >>   
   >> > >> >> >>    
   >> > >> >> >>   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> Good point. I hope they have a congressional investigation   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> about   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> the AP scandal. It's just as serious as the IRS scandal.   
   >> > >> >> >> >>>   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> Someone should write letters to Holder and Obama and   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> remind   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> them   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> that the constitution mentions freedom of the press.   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> Perhaps   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> they have forgotten about what they learned about the   
   >> > >> >> >> >>> constitution.   
   >> > >> >> >> >>>   
   >> > >> >> >> >>>   
   >> > >> >> >> >> Your problem there is that your guy, Bush2, pushed through   
   >> > >> >> >> >> the   
   >> > >> >> >> >> laws that make what happened to the AP entirely legal. You   
   >> > >> >> >> >> knew   
   >> > >> >> >> >> that it was legal, right?   
   >> > >> >> >> >   
   >> > >> >> >> > So I assume your take is that since Bush did it, it makes it   
   >> > >> >> >> > alright for Obama to do it?   No chance that both of them   
   >> > >> >> >> > are   
   >> > >> >> >> > wrong?   
   >> > >> >> >> >   
   >> > >> >> >> No, my take is that just about all of the laws passed in the   
   >> > >> >> >> hysteria about terrorism, especially those that restrict   
   >> > >> >> >> constitutional rights,   
   >> > >> >> >> are wrong, cowardly and un-American. This is an example of how   
   >> > >> >> >> we   
   >> > >> >> >> gave up freedom for almost-certainly-illusory security.   
   >> > >> >> >>   
   >> > >> >> >> Whether it's a Democratic or a Republican administration doing   
   >> > >> >> >> it,   
   >> > >> >> >> I   
   >> > >> >> >> think it's wrong. Period.   
   >> > >> >> >   
   >> > >> >> > Do you agree that Holder violated the constitution when he   
   >> > >> >> > forced   
   >> > >> >> > the   
   >> > >> >> > AP to give the federal government their phone records? yes or   
   >> > >> >> > no   
   >> > >> >>   
   >> > >> >> He didn't force AP to do anything.  He just simply took the   
   >> > >> >> records   
   >> > >> >> without subpoena or AP's knowledge.   
   >> > >> >>   
   >> > >> >> And yes, I think he violated the Constitution.   
   >> > >> >   
   >> > >> > Thanks--we are in total agreement. It was a violation of the   
   >> > >> > constitution.   
   >> > >> > I suggest that people write letters to Holder and Obama and advise   
   >> > >> > them   
   >> > >> > that the constitution grants freedom of the press.   
   >> > >>   
   >> > >> Agreed.  There's also the little matter of the Fourth Amendment,   
   >> > >> which is   
   >> > >> supposed to protect the rest of us from this sort of crap.   
   >> > >   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Patriot Act trumps everything else. All the government has to do is   
   >> > > invoke the word "terrorism" and they can do anything they want. Where   
   >> > > have you been?   
   >> >   
   >> > So you're saying the 4th Amendment no longer applies because the   
   >> > government   
   >> > says so?   
   >> >   
   >>   
   >> It's my guess that Holder would answer that question by saying that the   
   >> 4th Amendment no longer apples.   
   >>   
   >> Holder totally ignored the 4th Amendment when he tapped the phone lines   
   >> of   
   >> the AP reporters.   
   >   
   > Since the provisions of the Patriot Act that break the 4th Amendment   
   > have never been found unconstitutional, they are the law of the land.   
      
   So you approve of the Patriot Act then.   
      
   Interesting since you said it was vile earlier.   
      
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