From: martin@address-in-sig.invalid   
      
   On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 05:38:35 -0500, Les Cargill wrote:   
      
   > For good or for bad, there's "Charlie Wilson's War", which details the   
   > 1979-89 thing reasonably well. It's a book and a film. It's hardly   
   > obscure; the book dates back to 2003.   
   >   
   Hadn't heard of that one.   
      
   > The work that has provided context for me on the whole mess is "A Peace   
   > to End All Peace" (  ISBN-13: 978-0805088090 ) . It may seem to be "Brit   
   > bashing" but that's only by virtue of the time frame. The things that   
   > were done 100 years ago have been amplified by time, so it's just going   
   > to appear to be that way.   
   >   
   The best thing I've read on the Middle East is "Pity The Nation" by   
   Robert Fisk. He is a journalist/foreigh correspondent who lived in Beirut   
   throughout the Israeli invasion. He's also pretty strong on the events   
   leading up to that too. This was recommended to me by a (now ex) NZ army   
   man who did a tour as a UN peacekeeper on the Lebanese and Syrian borders   
   with Israel.   
      
   > The thing to remember is that the implosion of the Ottoman Empire is a   
   > much larger thing than any one person or regime's reaction to that. The   
   > larger thing is 1) the conceit that some optimum form of governance   
   > exists that is more or less universal and 2) that we know what that is.   
   >   
   Indeed. I've read "Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by T E Lawrence. He was one   
   of my dad's heros but I wasn't so impressed with him, but he does   
   describe the start of the Ottoman breakup as a participant.   
      
   When the Allies were carving up the Ottoman empire after WW1 they paid   
   about as much attention to the wishes of the locals and to ethnic and   
   geophysical mappings as their predecessors did in the Great African Carve-   
   up during the second half of the 19th century. None of the participants   
   in either of these map drawing exercises exactly covered themselves in   
   glory, and the more I read about the Victorians and their attitudes, the   
   worse they look: I think "a gang of arrogant bastards" is a fair summary.   
      
      
   --   
   martin@   | Martin Gregorie   
   gregorie. | Essex, UK   
   org       |   
      
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