From: isleofcapri@gmail.com   
      
   On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:02:12 -0500, \--><\(\(\(\(\(@> wrote:   
      
   > On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:00:53 +0000 (UTC), Alexander Cain wrote:   
   >   
   >> On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:06:37 -0500, Vinnie Yasay wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:21:20 -0800 (PST), Rats wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> The Elder wand is supposed to be a wand that cannot lose in duels yet   
   >>>> Dumbledore beat Grindewald in a duel to win the elder wand off him.   
   >>>> How could this be?   
   >>>   
   >>> I think Dumbledore used an emotional appeal. He cared about   
   >>> Grindelwald and wouldn't have wanted to duel him, particularly if he   
   >>> knew Grindelwald had the Elder Wand. And he knew that Grindelwald felt   
   >>> as guilty as he did about Ariana's death. Rita Skeeter said that based   
   >>> on eyewitness accounts of their confrontation, it seemed to be more of   
   >>> a surrender on Grindelwald's end than a duel. I know that taking Rita   
   >>> Skeeter at her word is risky, but I'm willing to believe Dumbledore   
   >>> won this one with only his words.   
   >>   
   >> I really beleive a huge amount more to Rita than Albus. Even if that   
   >> amount is infinitesimal. tongue.gif   
   >>   
   >> What is a wand but a magic channeler for the wizard/witch's   
   >> spellcasting?   
   >>   
   >> Wandless magic is well-known. So there are wizards/witches who are   
   >> powerful enough to channel magic withoud a prop.   
   >>   
   >> Is wandless magic more powerful than wand magic? I guess so, it's (at   
   >> least) faster. In a duel reflexes can be decisive. So our "unbeatable"   
   >> wand can be defeated by wandless magic.   
   >   
   > I think spontaneous child magic is quite different than adult wandless   
   > trained magic.   
      
   Do you have any examples of "adult wandless trained magic" from the   
   books? I can't think of any. The closest thing to that I can remember   
   is Harry causing his wand tip to illuminate with his hand a few inches   
   from his wand. Not exactly what I would call powerful magic.   
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