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XPost: alt.america, misc.education, alt.politics.democrats.d
XPost: alt.politics.economics
From: arthures@mv.com
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2010, Abel wrote:
> On Oct 29, 8:17 pm, Art Sowers wrote:
>
>> Abel sounds like Rich Lemert. We need more degrees and forget whether
>> there are any jobs that the degrees willl get.
>
> Who is Rich Lemert?
A guy I argued with endlessly on the newsgroup: sci.research.careers many
many years ago.
I agree with your premise. Degrees are a good
> thing, of course, but the rest is politics. The politics part is
> this, our government will HAVE to set up the policies that create
> these jobs, or at least keep the jobs here, instead of having all
> these jobs outsourced as has been happening. More on that later.
I agree. All the crap in the newspapers about "can't find employees" is
crap. Most PhDs coming out of grad school (except for a very few fields)
end up sending out 100-1000 resumes to get maybe 1-2 interviews, not
always even leading to a job offer.
> Although, even if we have a government that's not cooperative, that's
> not friendly to the working man, as our government has been lately,
> it's still a good thing to have a college degree.
Its nice on paper, but if it does not get you a job and a job that pays
more and a job that will last a lifetime, then what good is it?
And, lots of kids are coming out with high debt loads, but no job.
There are many
> examples of people with college degrees creating their own jobs. For
> example, did you know, that it was unemployed astronauts who first
> created the whole concept of video games? They created video games
> only as a means to fight boredom and to keep themselves occupied. But
> the video game industry has grown like gangbusters since.
You've got to focus on the guys who got their degrees and how many of them
end up at Walmart, packing bags, stocking shelves, etc.
>>> Any responsible parents should advice (or even use mild violence)
>>> their children to stay away from this "profession".
>>
>> As long as the exchange rates make it cheaper to do things over in
>> India/china, that's where the jobs are going to be.
>>
>> And, they are not going to hire Americans to go over there.
>
> We can have the most educated work force in the world (and we probably
> already do) but when our government has policies in place that are
> deliberately designed to outsource and eliminate as many American jobs
> as possible, then all that education is wasted. There is, presently,
> a complete lack of government regulations against the US companies
> that are outsourcing, offshoring, and importing labor. Some people
> call this "Globalism".
Yeah, ... also called "free trade" (which means if you are a big
corporation, you can get anything you want).
> American corporations are creating a lot of jobs, a LOT of jobs, in
> the computer field, but these jobs are being given to foreigners, not
> Americans.
That's true, too.
Here's what we need to do, and you can bet your life that
> the Republicans are NOT going to do it, we need some very smart
> government regulations, these regulations should be targetted for and
> specifically designed to protect American workers, rather than to
> protect foreign based corporations.
Be glad that the H1b visa pool is capped. They should cap the L visas,
too, which are not capped. Indian IT companies can bring in all of India
on L visas.
> American corporations have a right to hire foreigners if there are no
> Americans to fill the job specifications, but that does not seem to be
> the case here. It seems to me that they are deliberately hiring
> foreign workers when they can just as easily be hiring Americans who
> are equally qualified. When Congress authorized an increase in the
> fee for an H-1B visa (which allows foreigners to be employed here in
> the IT field), it was a step in the right direction. There are some
> American corporations that ONLY hire foreigners, and this practice
> should be stopped. We're in a recession, with jobs being scarce,
> therefore these jobs should be given to American citizens, if the
> Americans are qualified.
I agree.
> Where I work, they hire a lot of people from India, and from other
> countries, but they also hire a lot of Americans, and so that's a good
> thing, I work at a very large corporation, with world wide tentacles.
> But I have a serious problem with other companies who only hire
> foreigners. I know of one guy, from India, a non-American, who had a
> difficult time finding work here in America, so he went back to
> India. When he went back to India he very quickly found work in the
> computer science field, but the work he found was with an American
> company there. I find something seriously wrong with this picture.
> American companies are creating jobs here in America, for non-
> Americans, and American companies are creating jobs ourside of
> America, for non-Americans.
And, the Indian companies that buy up US companies, lay off the American
staff, and bring over Indians on L visas.
Somehow, I get this horrible feeling
> that, politically speaking, the American worker has been stabbed in
> the back, big time.
Here is another view:
================
Its an easy estimate based on the following simple assumptions:
$ 800 billion moving average US trade deficit (get this number from
almost anywhere, I got it from recent issue of Finacial Times).
Lets use $10,000 USD as "average" annual wage on non-US territory (eg. 3rd
world).
Compute: 800,000,000,000 divided by:
10,000 (per employee)
80,000,000 jobs
And, the job multiplier is greater in the 3rd world than first world, then
the number of jobs in foreign countries, supported by the US economy, is
much greater than 80 million.
And, this is why we're having such trouble (compared to everyone else in
the world) getting out of this Great Recession (brought on by our glorious
but greedy-selfish financial services industry [eg. Lehman, AIG, Bear
Stearns, etc.], and FDI into 3rd world with cheap exchange rates by our
US rich investors).
And, all that money from the rich guys ....going into rapidly expanding
3rd world economies because their ROI is bigger, and _not_ going into our
[continued in next message]
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