XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism
XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore
From: tc@comcast.net
On 11/22/10 4:35 PM, Tom wrote:
> On 11/22/10 4:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Free Spirits
> of the Jungle wrote:
>> On Nov 22, 4:17 pm, Tom wrote:
>>> On 11/22/10 3:48 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Free Spirits
>>>
>>> of the Jungle wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 22, 3:03 pm, zencycle wrote:
>>>>> It isn't as much as revolution in the infrastructure that's necessary
>>>>> to accommodate bike travel, but a revolution in the american culture.
>>>>> Certainly, bike lanes and secure parking facilities would be helpful,
>>>>> but what it really comes down to is mutual respect on both the part of
>>>>> the cyclist and the motorist.
>>>
>>>>> As someone who has been an amatuer racer and commuter since the mid
>>>>> 80's, I can make a few comments on infrastructure improvements as they
>>>>> relate to 'cycling friendly' culture.
>>>
>>>> I have slowly but surely moved away from infrastructure to equality. I
>>>> mean the bicycle TAKE THE LANE or nothing at all. No sidewalk or edge
>>>> of the road. You can not possibly share the lane with a 5 ton vehicle.
>>>> You share the road, but not the lane. You are too fragile to squeeze
>>>> into the lane with another vehicle which feels entitled to the whole
>>>> lane and harasses you and pushes you out.
>>>
>>>> You share the lane when there's a one lane road. One point we got to
>>>> make is:
>>>
>>>> ONE MORE BIKE = ONE FEWER CAR
>>>
>>>>> 1) bike lanes are dangerous - Motorists generally show little regard
>>>>> for a strip reserved for cyclists. People pull out of parking spaces
>>>>> and open doors without looking, delivery vehicles park right on them,
>>>>> and the more clueless riders travel the wrong direction.
>>>
>>>>> 2) bike paths are dangerous - bike paths get clogged with: runners,
>>>>> mothers with strollers, and the worst of all - rollerbladers. It's
>>>>> literally impossible to ride on an urban bike path at anything faster
>>>>> than a walking speed when the weather is nice.
>>>
>>>>> I worked in boston for a few years, and commuted from bedford to
>>>>> downtown, directly alongside the minuteman bike path. It was safer,
>>>>> faster, and easier to ride on the street.
>>>
>>>>> But I'm an anomaly among commuters. Since I'm a competitive cyclist, I
>>>>> usually keep up with traffic in urban areas and have no problem taking
>>>>> a lane to make a turn. I've been honked at a few times as I draft a
>>>>> truck at 30 mph, but I'm not getting in anyone's way or slowing anyone
>>>>> down. I'm one of the rare cyclist that you see stopping for traffic
>>>>> lights and stop signs, and I normally yield the right of way to cars -
>>>>> as if I were driving.
>>>
>>>> Yep, you are far above the average. Most practical cycling occurs at
>>>> no more than 10 mph.
>>>
>>>>> I've found that by giving respect to other vehicles on the road by not
>>>>> _expecting_ them to yield to me, I end up not getting harassed too
>>>>> often. Just like every other commuter, I take the same route at about
>>>>> the same time of day, and I'm seen every day by the same people. They
>>>>> give me room, and I do my best to make sure I don't make them have to
>>>>> slow down.
>>>
>>>>> This is what needs to change if we are to create a culture more
>>>>> amenable to cycling in the US, not demanding our own infrastructure,
>>>>> but showing a mutual respect for other users of the motorways. You
>>>>> have to get to work, just like I do.
>>>
>>>> Well, my good neighbor (he's really nice but stupid) doesn't consider
>>>> that bicycles should be on the road. The bad drivers just harass you
>>>> or pass you within inches.
>>>
>>>>> But that's me, and I know I'm not like everyone else. I've seen
>>>>> cyclists blast through a redlight on the alewife brook parkway at mass
>>>>> ave, forcing cars to lock up their brakes. I've seen a messenger hop a
>>>>> median strip into oncoming traffic. stupid, stupid, stupid.
>>>
>>>> Yes but Darwin's law takes care of them.
>>>
>>>>> Gary Fisher laments the lack of a euro-style cycling culture in the US
>>>>> - It isn't he infrastructure that's the issue, it's the attitude. If
>>>>> the motoring public is going to be more amenable to accommodations in
>>>>> infrastructure, they're going to have to accept bicycles as
>>>>> alternative transportation and not toys, and that isn't going to
>>>>> happen until they see the cycling commuting ride like adults instead
>>>>> of children.
>>>
>>>> We admit our inferior place in the food chain by placing ourselves
>>>> next to the gutter. Critical Mass is pretty stupid too in blocking
>>>> roads. TAKE THE LANE --just one lane, and let the cars worry about
>>>> you.
>>>
>>>> THIS IS MY PROPOSAL: CARS MUST EXIT THE LANE 100' BEFORE AND AFTER A
>>>> BICYCLE. The distance is negotiable. ;)
>>>
>>> yea its always fun to go around a bend going up hill at speed limit of
>>> 45 mph and run into a cyclist who is pumping his ass of and going 3mph
>>> taking half the lane and cars comming in the other direction. I guess
>>> the only solution is to punt.
>>
>> Hey, hey, hold those horses. The cyclist is going on the right lane
>> and you are a good boy going 20-25 on the slow lane, particularly
>> before a blind curve.
>>
>> Besides, who's going 3mph, a grandmother? She deserves you to stop and
>> bow, OK?
>
>
> how fast do you go up a steep hill, i wasnt the one going up i was
> coming down and the car had to swerve to clear the bike and almost hit
> me, if you could go faster than 3 or 4 mph up this hill you are either a
> superman or a liar. and there are 2 blind curves and the speed limit is
> 45mph
by the way iam not a boy i am old enough to be your grandfather and up
to a acouple of years ago i rode a bike on a bike trail on an old
railroad bed converted to a bike trail Bikes and walkers only mostly in
urban areas, very safe and enjoyable the trail runs from pittsburgh to
Washington DC.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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