ec133a7e   
   XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism   
   XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore   
   From: tc@comcast.net   
      
   On 11/22/10 4:53 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Free Spirits   
   of the Jungle wrote:   
   > On Nov 22, 4:39 pm, Tom  wrote:   
   >> On 11/22/10 4:35 PM, Tom wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 11/22/10 4:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey&  the Free Spirits   
   >>> of the Jungle wrote:   
   >>>> On Nov 22, 4:17 pm, Tom  wrote:   
   >>>>> On 11/22/10 3:48 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey&  the Free Spirits   
   >>   
   >>>>> of the Jungle wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>> On Nov 22, 3:03 pm, zencycle  wrote:   
   >>>>>>> It isn't as much as revolution in the infrastructure that's necessary   
   >>>>>>> to accommodate bike travel, but a revolution in the american culture.   
   >>>>>>> Certainly, bike lanes and secure parking facilities would be helpful,   
   >>>>>>> but what it really comes down to is mutual respect on both the part of   
   >>>>>>> the cyclist and the motorist.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> As someone who has been an amatuer racer and commuter since the mid   
   >>>>>>> 80's, I can make a few comments on infrastructure improvements as they   
   >>>>>>> relate to 'cycling friendly' culture.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> I have slowly but surely moved away from infrastructure to equality. I   
   >>>>>> mean the bicycle TAKE THE LANE or nothing at all. No sidewalk or edge   
   >>>>>> of the road. You can not possibly share the lane with a 5 ton vehicle.   
   >>>>>> You share the road, but not the lane. You are too fragile to squeeze   
   >>>>>> into the lane with another vehicle which feels entitled to the whole   
   >>>>>> lane and harasses you and pushes you out.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> You share the lane when there's a one lane road. One point we got to   
   >>>>>> make is:   
   >>   
   >>>>>> ONE MORE BIKE = ONE FEWER CAR   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> 1) bike lanes are dangerous - Motorists generally show little regard   
   >>>>>>> for a strip reserved for cyclists. People pull out of parking spaces   
   >>>>>>> and open doors without looking, delivery vehicles park right on them,   
   >>>>>>> and the more clueless riders travel the wrong direction.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> 2) bike paths are dangerous - bike paths get clogged with: runners,   
   >>>>>>> mothers with strollers, and the worst of all - rollerbladers. It's   
   >>>>>>> literally impossible to ride on an urban bike path at anything faster   
   >>>>>>> than a walking speed when the weather is nice.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> I worked in boston for a few years, and commuted from bedford to   
   >>>>>>> downtown, directly alongside the minuteman bike path. It was safer,   
   >>>>>>> faster, and easier to ride on the street.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> But I'm an anomaly among commuters. Since I'm a competitive cyclist, I   
   >>>>>>> usually keep up with traffic in urban areas and have no problem taking   
   >>>>>>> a lane to make a turn. I've been honked at a few times as I draft a   
   >>>>>>> truck at 30 mph, but I'm not getting in anyone's way or slowing anyone   
   >>>>>>> down. I'm one of the rare cyclist that you see stopping for traffic   
   >>>>>>> lights and stop signs, and I normally yield the right of way to cars -   
   >>>>>>> as if I were driving.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Yep, you are far above the average. Most practical cycling occurs at   
   >>>>>> no more than 10 mph.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> I've found that by giving respect to other vehicles on the road by not   
   >>>>>>> _expecting_ them to yield to me, I end up not getting harassed too   
   >>>>>>> often. Just like every other commuter, I take the same route at about   
   >>>>>>> the same time of day, and I'm seen every day by the same people. They   
   >>>>>>> give me room, and I do my best to make sure I don't make them have to   
   >>>>>>> slow down.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> This is what needs to change if we are to create a culture more   
   >>>>>>> amenable to cycling in the US, not demanding our own infrastructure,   
   >>>>>>> but showing a mutual respect for other users of the motorways. You   
   >>>>>>> have to get to work, just like I do.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Well, my good neighbor (he's really nice but stupid) doesn't consider   
   >>>>>> that bicycles should be on the road. The bad drivers just harass you   
   >>>>>> or pass you within inches.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> But that's me, and I know I'm not like everyone else. I've seen   
   >>>>>>> cyclists blast through a redlight on the alewife brook parkway at mass   
   >>>>>>> ave, forcing cars to lock up their brakes. I've seen a messenger hop a   
   >>>>>>> median strip into oncoming traffic. stupid, stupid, stupid.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Yes but Darwin's law takes care of them.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> Gary Fisher laments the lack of a euro-style cycling culture in the US   
   >>>>>>> - It isn't he infrastructure that's the issue, it's the attitude. If   
   >>>>>>> the motoring public is going to be more amenable to accommodations in   
   >>>>>>> infrastructure, they're going to have to accept bicycles as   
   >>>>>>> alternative transportation and not toys, and that isn't going to   
   >>>>>>> happen until they see the cycling commuting ride like adults instead   
   >>>>>>> of children.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> We admit our inferior place in the food chain by placing ourselves   
   >>>>>> next to the gutter. Critical Mass is pretty stupid too in blocking   
   >>>>>> roads. TAKE THE LANE --just one lane, and let the cars worry about   
   >>>>>> you.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> THIS IS MY PROPOSAL: CARS MUST EXIT THE LANE 100' BEFORE AND AFTER A   
   >>>>>> BICYCLE. The distance is negotiable. ;)   
   >>   
   >>>>> yea its always fun to go around a bend going up hill at speed limit of   
   >>>>> 45 mph and run into a cyclist who is pumping his ass of and going 3mph   
   >>>>> taking half the lane and cars comming in the other direction. I guess   
   >>>>> the only solution is to punt.   
   >>   
   >>>> Hey, hey, hold those horses. The cyclist is going on the right lane   
   >>>> and you are a good boy going 20-25 on the slow lane, particularly   
   >>>> before a blind curve.   
   >>   
   >>>> Besides, who's going 3mph, a grandmother? She deserves you to stop and   
   >>>> bow, OK?   
   >>   
   >>> how fast do you go up a steep hill, i wasnt the one going up i was   
   >>> coming down and the car had to swerve to clear the bike and almost hit   
   >>> me, if you could go faster than 3 or 4 mph up this hill you are either a   
   >>> superman or a liar. and there are 2 blind curves and the speed limit is   
   >>> 45mph   
   >>   
   >> by the way iam not a boy i am old enough to be your grandfather and up   
   >> to a acouple of years ago i rode a bike on a bike trail on an old   
   >> railroad bed converted to a bike trail  Bikes and walkers only mostly in   
   >> urban areas,  very safe and enjoyable the trail runs from pittsburgh to   
   >> Washington DC.   
   >   
   > Hey, maybe you can date the grandma then.   
   >   
      
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