e00cf6e7
XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism
XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore
From: tc@comcast.net
On 11/22/10 5:16 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Free Spirits
of the Jungle wrote:
> On Nov 22, 5:03 pm, Tom wrote:
>> On 11/22/10 4:53 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Free Spirits
>>
>>
>>
>> of the Jungle wrote:
>>> On Nov 22, 4:39 pm, Tom wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/10 4:35 PM, Tom wrote:
>>
>>>>> On 11/22/10 4:24 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Free Spirits
>>>>> of the Jungle wrote:
>>>>>> On Nov 22, 4:17 pm, Tom wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/22/10 3:48 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Free
Spirits
>>
>>>>>>> of the Jungle wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 3:03 pm, zencycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It isn't as much as revolution in the infrastructure that's necessary
>>>>>>>>> to accommodate bike travel, but a revolution in the american culture.
>>>>>>>>> Certainly, bike lanes and secure parking facilities would be helpful,
>>>>>>>>> but what it really comes down to is mutual respect on both the part
of
>>>>>>>>> the cyclist and the motorist.
>>
>>>>>>>>> As someone who has been an amatuer racer and commuter since the mid
>>>>>>>>> 80's, I can make a few comments on infrastructure improvements as
they
>>>>>>>>> relate to 'cycling friendly' culture.
>>
>>>>>>>> I have slowly but surely moved away from infrastructure to equality. I
>>>>>>>> mean the bicycle TAKE THE LANE or nothing at all. No sidewalk or edge
>>>>>>>> of the road. You can not possibly share the lane with a 5 ton vehicle.
>>>>>>>> You share the road, but not the lane. You are too fragile to squeeze
>>>>>>>> into the lane with another vehicle which feels entitled to the whole
>>>>>>>> lane and harasses you and pushes you out.
>>
>>>>>>>> You share the lane when there's a one lane road. One point we got to
>>>>>>>> make is:
>>
>>>>>>>> ONE MORE BIKE = ONE FEWER CAR
>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) bike lanes are dangerous - Motorists generally show little regard
>>>>>>>>> for a strip reserved for cyclists. People pull out of parking spaces
>>>>>>>>> and open doors without looking, delivery vehicles park right on them,
>>>>>>>>> and the more clueless riders travel the wrong direction.
>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) bike paths are dangerous - bike paths get clogged with: runners,
>>>>>>>>> mothers with strollers, and the worst of all - rollerbladers. It's
>>>>>>>>> literally impossible to ride on an urban bike path at anything faster
>>>>>>>>> than a walking speed when the weather is nice.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I worked in boston for a few years, and commuted from bedford to
>>>>>>>>> downtown, directly alongside the minuteman bike path. It was safer,
>>>>>>>>> faster, and easier to ride on the street.
>>
>>>>>>>>> But I'm an anomaly among commuters. Since I'm a competitive cyclist,
I
>>>>>>>>> usually keep up with traffic in urban areas and have no problem
taking
>>>>>>>>> a lane to make a turn. I've been honked at a few times as I draft a
>>>>>>>>> truck at 30 mph, but I'm not getting in anyone's way or slowing
anyone
>>>>>>>>> down. I'm one of the rare cyclist that you see stopping for traffic
>>>>>>>>> lights and stop signs, and I normally yield the right of way to cars
-
>>>>>>>>> as if I were driving.
>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, you are far above the average. Most practical cycling occurs at
>>>>>>>> no more than 10 mph.
>>
>>>>>>>>> I've found that by giving respect to other vehicles on the road by
not
>>>>>>>>> _expecting_ them to yield to me, I end up not getting harassed too
>>>>>>>>> often. Just like every other commuter, I take the same route at about
>>>>>>>>> the same time of day, and I'm seen every day by the same people. They
>>>>>>>>> give me room, and I do my best to make sure I don't make them have to
>>>>>>>>> slow down.
>>
>>>>>>>>> This is what needs to change if we are to create a culture more
>>>>>>>>> amenable to cycling in the US, not demanding our own infrastructure,
>>>>>>>>> but showing a mutual respect for other users of the motorways. You
>>>>>>>>> have to get to work, just like I do.
>>
>>>>>>>> Well, my good neighbor (he's really nice but stupid) doesn't consider
>>>>>>>> that bicycles should be on the road. The bad drivers just harass you
>>>>>>>> or pass you within inches.
>>
>>>>>>>>> But that's me, and I know I'm not like everyone else. I've seen
>>>>>>>>> cyclists blast through a redlight on the alewife brook parkway at
mass
>>>>>>>>> ave, forcing cars to lock up their brakes. I've seen a messenger hop
a
>>>>>>>>> median strip into oncoming traffic. stupid, stupid, stupid.
>>
>>>>>>>> Yes but Darwin's law takes care of them.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary Fisher laments the lack of a euro-style cycling culture in the
US
>>>>>>>>> - It isn't he infrastructure that's the issue, it's the attitude. If
>>>>>>>>> the motoring public is going to be more amenable to accommodations in
>>>>>>>>> infrastructure, they're going to have to accept bicycles as
>>>>>>>>> alternative transportation and not toys, and that isn't going to
>>>>>>>>> happen until they see the cycling commuting ride like adults instead
>>>>>>>>> of children.
>>
>>>>>>>> We admit our inferior place in the food chain by placing ourselves
>>>>>>>> next to the gutter. Critical Mass is pretty stupid too in blocking
>>>>>>>> roads. TAKE THE LANE --just one lane, and let the cars worry about
>>>>>>>> you.
>>
>>>>>>>> THIS IS MY PROPOSAL: CARS MUST EXIT THE LANE 100' BEFORE AND AFTER A
>>>>>>>> BICYCLE. The distance is negotiable. ;)
>>
>>>>>>> yea its always fun to go around a bend going up hill at speed limit of
>>>>>>> 45 mph and run into a cyclist who is pumping his ass of and going 3mph
>>>>>>> taking half the lane and cars comming in the other direction. I guess
>>>>>>> the only solution is to punt.
>>
>>>>>> Hey, hey, hold those horses. The cyclist is going on the right lane
>>>>>> and you are a good boy going 20-25 on the slow lane, particularly
>>>>>> before a blind curve.
>>
>>>>>> Besides, who's going 3mph, a grandmother? She deserves you to stop and
>>>>>> bow, OK?
>>
>>>>> how fast do you go up a steep hill, i wasnt the one going up i was
>>>>> coming down and the car had to swerve to clear the bike and almost hit
>>>>> me, if you could go faster than 3 or 4 mph up this hill you are either a
>>>>> superman or a liar. and there are 2 blind curves and the speed limit is
>>>>> 45mph
>>
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