XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism   
   XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore   
   From: demi@moore.net   
      
   On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:44:30 +0000 (UTC), Brent   
    wrote:   
      
   >On 2011-02-17, Ashton Crusher  wrote:   
   >   
   >> The free market can't produce FREE roads but they could make   
   >> standardized ones.  The biggest problem I see with free market roads   
   >> is if they are truly free market then you have lost your freedom to   
   >> travel "freely" in the non-economic sense.  Ultimately you would not   
   >> be able to leave your house without paying for the privilege.  The   
   >> libertarians call that the perfect world.   
   >   
   >As opposed to government roads that are created with magic and instead   
   >of resources taken from the population? Or is it that you want to   
   >arrange things by the political process so that those people over there   
   >pay for the roads while you get to use them for free?   
   >   
   >As to freedom to travel, how exactly do we have that by the political   
   >process? The govenment has its armed muscle collect tribute on the   
   >roads. The government has them set up checkpoints. Government enjoys   
   >making people submit to it in order to travel. Travel was reduced from   
   >a right to a government granted privilege. What's better? Being a   
   >paying customer or subjected to stops and possibly searches by armed   
   >men who's performance reviews depend on how much money they bring in   
   >and/or how many arrests they make?   
   >   
   >   
   >.   
      
   Under the current system you are free to leave your home in your car   
   and drive anywhere you want (or you can walk).    If you think you are   
   subject to "gvt inspection" along they way lets agree, for this   
   discussion, that you are correct.  There is nothing about turning all   
   the roads into private ownership in a free market that in any way   
   changes how you would be subject to  "gvt inspection" along they way.   
      
     The "control" by the gvt would be/could be exactly the same as it is   
   now, the ONLY difference would be whether you had to PAY for EVERY   
   SPECIFIC use of the roads and/or an access subscription fee.  In our   
   current system you do not have to  PAY for EVERY SPECIFIC use of the   
   roads except for a very very tiny percentage of toll roads, and   
   certainly not your local collectors and residential roads.  But if ALL   
   roads were made private enterprise there is NOTHING (except the gvt of   
   course, but you don't want them involved) to stop the private owners   
   from demanding that you PAY for EVERY SPECIFIC use of the road (or a   
   subscription) in front of your house and charging whatever they wanted   
   for it's use. Even if they sold it to you on a monthly or yearly basis   
   instead of every trip they would still require you to pay them   
   directly and for most roads in residential areas there would be no   
   alternative, you either pay to back out of your driveway or you don't   
   leave.   
      
    And they could charge anything they want since in your model it's   
   totally free enterprise, the market charges what it wants.  If someone   
   bought the streets in a subdivision from the city and made them   
   private they could charge everyone $25 every time they left their   
   house.  Don't pay, don't leave!    People who lost their jobs could   
   wind up confined to their homes due to inability to pay the private   
   road owners for access.  Other then a few segments of highway, the   
   idea of private ownership of roads would be a huge loss of our ability   
   to travel freely (in the non-economic sense).  Remember, there are two   
   meanings to the term "freely".   
      
     Court rulings now give us the right to use the public roads   
   unfettered for NON-commercial use.  And there are MANY people who pay   
   no taxes due to their income level but actually get money paid to them   
   every year with the earned income credit. The amount is more then   
   enough to offset the $1000 they spend a year on gas taxes.  So there   
   are many people currently using the system for free and who, under a   
   "free market" system could be precluded from even traveling.   
      
   It's unfortunate that so many libertarians have a one-size-fits-all   
   mentality that they cannot see interrelationships that preclude some   
   particular model working in every instance.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)