0ec72fab
XPost: talk.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.libertarian, alt.anarchism
XPost: alt.society.anarchy
From: clore@columbia-center.org
Joshua Dougherty wrote:
> On Mar 9, 6:50 am, Dan Clore wrote:
>
>> I don't think that that's actually a match. There's the same or
>> very similar MO, and both reports give the target of the attack as
>> a Shiite mosque in Baghdad. But not only is the number of
>> casualties different (50 killed versus 86-87) the name of the
>> mosque given is different -- Khillani versus Ghai Lani. Using the
>> Antiwar.com archives, I've found a Yahoo report that is definitely
>> the same incident as IBC reports (IBC doesn't list it as a source),
>> and it gives the name of the mosque as Khulani. Khillani and
>> Khulani are obviously just different transliterations, but Ghai
>> Lani looks different enough that it seems unlikely to be another
>> transliteration of the same name, though it's possible. The Yahoo
>> report also gives the number wounded as over 200, whereas the
>> WikiLeaks report gives the number wounded as 125.
>>
>> But here's the real kicker: The WikiLeaks report gives the time of
>> issue as 07:50:00. The IBC report gives the time of the incident as
>> 2:00 p.m. Now, these WikiLeaks reports use the military 24 hour
>> system rather than a.m. and p.m. So if the WikiLeaks report were
>> for the same incident as the IBC report, it would have to be issued
>> some time after 14:00:00.
>>
>> So, I conclude that these are clearly two separate incidents, if
>> the information is at all accurate. It's far from unknown for
>> insurgents to coordinate attacks using the same MO at around the
>> same time, so I wonder if that isn't the case here.
>
> Um Dan, those are the same incident. Khulani, Khillani, Khulani and
> Ghai Lani are all just transliterations. I've worked with iraqi place
> names and transliterations like this for years now so am familiar
> with it. There is nothing unusual about differences like those above.
> They all are the same word, just with a difference in whether the
> sound of the Arabic word should start with an English 'Kh...' or
> 'Gh...' sound. In this case, the press mostly decided to write it up
> in English with a 'Kh', while the US military decided to use 'Gh' in
> this log.
>
> Also, your "real kicker" about the time of day is just some kind of
> mistake on the website ishikawa cited. WikiLeaks provided IBC with
> the unredacted logs to work with. The date and time given in the log
> is:
>
> "Date: 2007-06-19 13:50:00"
>
> And the log gives a detailed timeline in the text. These numbers get
> redacted on the website, but you can confirm 1:50PM from the
> unredacted text:
>
> "TIMELINE:
>
> 1350: ROMEO ELEMENT CALLS STRIKE TO REPORT A LARGE EXPLOSION ON RTE
> WILD THEY BELIEVE IT TO BE A VBIED
>
> 1432: SHIA MOSQUE GHAI LHANI WAS TARGETED BUT THERE IS A REPORT THAT
> IT POSSIBLY TARGETED AN MP PATROL ALSO
>
> 1458: UPDATE FROM THE UNIT ON THE GROUND IS THAT THE DRIVER WAS
> INSIDE OF A TRUCK FILLED WITH PROPANE TANKS WHEN HE TRIED TO CROSS
> THE CURB THE TRUCK GOT STUCK AND WAS DETONATED THERE.
>
> 1800: BJCC REPORTS 50X KILLED AND 125 X WOUNDED"
>
> The time of 7:50 AM never appears anywhere in the actual log, so i
> don't know why it says that on that website. Perhaps there is some
> kind of bug with the dateline on that site. You can however see again
> that 1:50PM is correct in the 'tracking number' column on the left
> on the website:
>
> "20070619135038SMB"
>
> That means 2007, June 19 at 1350 (or 1:50 PM)
>
> But even if there had been a disparity with the time of day between
> the two sources that wouldn't necessarily mean it didn't match, it
> could just mean that a media report got the time wrong.
Thanks, Josh. You've provided more than adequate explanations for two of
the three major discrepancies here. (The third is the number of
casualties.) I think that's good enough to conclude that these reports
are about the same incident. There was a reason I qualified my conclusions.
--
Dan Clore
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