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XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism
XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore
From: me@privacy.net
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news:orfairbairn-B29E6D.14325624062012@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net...
> In article
> ,
> "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 24, 8:26 am, John B. wrote:
>> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >On Jun 23, 5:04 pm, John B. wrote:
>> > >> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
>> > >>
>> > >> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >On Jun 23, 6:15 am, John B. wrote:
>> > >> >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:11:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >
>> > >> >> wrote:
>> > >> >> >John B. wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >> >> To be frank, I can't see the necessity of "bike lanes". I have
>> > >> >> >> lived
>> > >> >> >> in 4 Asian countries in the past 20 years, all of whom do not
>> > >> >> >> have
>> > >> >> >> bicycle "facilities" and strangely enough (from what I read
>> > >> >> >> here)
>> > >> >> >> we
>> > >> >> >> don't seem to have a plurality of bicycle accidents.
>> >
>> > >> >> >The necessity of bike lanes is a myth, similar to other bike
>> > >> >> >safety
>> > >> >> >myths. Americans have been told for 30 years now that they
>> > >> >> >_need_
>> > >> >> >bike
>> > >> >> >lanes and special hats to survive riding a bike. Few question
>> > >> >> >that
>> > >> >> >propaganda, and almost none bother to look for actual data.
>> >
>> > >> >> >The data would disprove both notions, if they were curious
>> > >> >> >enough to
>> > >> >> >look and mathematical enough to understand.
>> >
>> > >> >> > > However, we do
>> > >> >> >> have the policy that in the event of an accident the largest
>> > >> >> >> participant is initially deemed to be at fault. i.e., a bike
>> > >> >> >> hits
>> > >> >> >> a
>> > >> >> >> pedestrian, the bike is initially deemed to be at fault; if a
>> > >> >> >> motorcycle hits a bicycle, it is the motorcycle's fault, if an
>> > >> >> >> auto
>> > >> >> >> hits a motorcycle it is the auto's fault, and so on.
>> >
>> > >> >> >> While investigation may very well demonstrate that the larger
>> > >> >> >> participant is blameless it does provide a starting place for
>> > >> >> >> determining fault and seems to work pretty well.
>> >
>> > >> >> >An entirely reasonable approach, I think.
>> >
>> > >> >> >> At least I can't
>> > >> >> >> remember a single case where I was threatened, cursed, or beer
>> > >> >> >> cans
>> > >> >> >> hurled at me while riding a bike. But perhaps that is a matter
>> > >> >> >> of
>> > >> >> >> more
>> > >> >> >> civilized actions in the developing countries?
>> >
>> > >> >> >Perhaps. Some of us get very little trouble when riding.
>> >
>> > >> >> >Alternately, perhaps it's just that some of us ignore minor
>> > >> >> >incidents,
>> > >> >> >while others obsess over them and complain loudly online. I
>> > >> >> >happen
>> > >> >> >to
>> > >> >> >think the world a person inhabits is greatly shaped by the
>> > >> >> >person's
>> > >> >> >own
>> > >> >> >attitude.
>> >
>> > >> >> But in this modern "somebody else's gotta take care of me" era I
>> > >> >> can
>> > >> >> see the necessity for bike lanes.
>> >
>> > >> >You miss the point of bike lanes. While Nervous Nellie and Ned see
>> > >> >them as safe(r) places for them to ride out of car traffic, their
>> > >> >real
>> > >> >purpose is to keep bike out of the way of cars.
>> >
>> > >> >This is not without benefit to the bicyclist, owing to the (mostly
>> > >> >unreasonable) hostility many motorists direct to bicyclists if they
>> > >> >have to share lanes with them.
>> >
>> > >> >This is not to say that bike lanes are an ideal solution, but what
>> > >> >the
>> > >> >heck - as long as bicycling isn't relegated to token, poor
>> > >> >facilities. Ideally, ample satisfactory bicycling facilites would
>> > >> >make the attitude problem irrelevant. Anti-facility "advocates"
>> > >> >argue
>> > >> >that facilities are a poor substitute for cooperative use of
>> > >> >existing
>> > >> >roads, and there's truth in that; but you've got start somewhere;
>> > >> >you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.
>> >
>> > >> >> Of course, by the same token there
>> > >> >> should be "foot paths" solely reserved for foot traffic, and
>> > >> >> perhaps
>> > >> >> with the rapidly ageing population it might be useful to consider
>> > >> >> "Reserved for the Elderly" pathways. After all some of us aren't
>> > >> >> as
>> > >> >> spry as we used to be and can't leap out of the way of a speeding
>> > >> >> teenager.
>> >
>> > >> >> Of course, to be effective these byways need to be policed. I
>> > >> >> would
>> > >> >> recommend, say a $500 fine, for improper usage.
>> >
>> > >> >I would recommend, say, require any traveler who harms anyone else,
>> > >> >or
>> > >> >demonstrates a pattern of disregard for cooperative principles,
>> > >> >inflicting undue distress on others in the course of their private
>> > >> >transportation... take away these assholes right to private
>> > >> >transportation (difficult to implement, but not impossible) -
>> > >> >restrict
>> > >> >their free travel first to well-behaved use of (ample and adequate)
>> > >> >public transportation. If they can't maintain cooperative regard
>> > >> >there, take away their right to free travel. If that doesn't work,
>> > >> >intervention and incarceration, with incentives for productive
>> > >> >rehabilitation (requiring work to offset their cost to society -
>> > >> >otherwise put them in a hole somewhere). All subject to a
>> > >> >compassionate justice system based on reasonableness, of course.
>> >
>> > >> Err... I kind of agree with you. But you are leaving out the
>> > >> assholes
>> > >> who insist on impeding traffic by traveling slower then the average
>> > >> traffic speed;
>> >
>> > >They're not assholes about it if they weave out of the way onto
>> > >sidewalks and meadows, now are they? That would be the regard for
>> > >cooperation I was talking about.
>> >
>> > >> weave around and even (horrors) leave the highway for
>> > >> short sojourns onto sidewalks and curbs, or even across meadows and
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