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   XPost: alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.driving, alt.society.liberalism   
   XPost: alt.fan.michael-moore   
   From: thetibetanmonkey@gmail.com   
      
   On Sep 18, 8:59 pm, Michael Ejercito  wrote:   
   > On Sep 13, 10:55 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >  wrote:   
   > > On Sep 13, 9:18 pm, Love  wrote:   
   >   
   > > > In article ,   
   Wil...@nowhere.net   
   > > > says...   
   >   
   > > > >On 9/13/2012 8:17 PM, Love wrote:   
   > > > >> So you voluntarily agree to remain a citizen of   
   > > > >> a country that "makes" you pay taxes, or will you   
   > > > >> claim that you are a slave who is forced to remain,   
   > > > >> at the point of a gun?   
   >   
   > > > >> See this little thing in my fingers?  It's the   
   > > > >> world's tiniest violin.   
   >   
   > > > >Yeah right.  Sharing is voluntary, and any "agreement" that says I will   
   > > > >be locked up if I don't do it is coercion which invalidates any   
   "contract".   
   >   
   > > > >Giving is a wonderful thing that ennobles the giver and uplifts those   
   > > > >who receive.  A system that forcibly redistributes wealth has nothing to   
   > > > >do with charity as it degrades the receiver and enslaves the payer.   
   >   
   > > > I'm still playing that tiny violin for you.   
   >   
   > > > Charity does not ennoble.  No one ever said that   
   > > > "redistribution" was based on the notion of charity,   
   > > > except that whackjob Ayn Rand, and she was wrong.   
   >   
   > > I agree, but redistribution should be accompanied with frugality and   
   > > responsibility. NO FREE HANDOUTS... meaning everyone should be   
   > > expected to do something according to their means or pay some money   
   > > for a service. For example, paying $25 to see a doctor would prevent   
   > > abuses. I wouldn't give full welfare to someone who drives a car. You   
   > > better use public transportation, ride a bike or walk. Let the poor be   
   > > healthy, not couch potatoes. Reduce welfare to smokers.   
   >   
   > > NYC is doing some of these things and it's working. Remember, THE   
   > > REVOLUTION IS ABOUT SOLUTIONS. Throwing money at the problem often   
   > > feeds corruption. I've seen it with my own eyes. "Do not feed the   
   > > wildlife" is a sign often used where feeding the animals produces   
   > > dependency. Don't let them go hungry or go without healthcare either.   
   > > Those are human rights.   
   >   
   >    medieval Europe also had a form of welfare with no free handouts.   
   >   
   >    It was called the manorial system, where those on welfare worked on   
   > farms and in exchanged, received protection.   
   >   
   >  Michael   
      
   And modern Europe is often too giving. They have made a lot of   
   progress though.   
      
   The Revolution must strike a balance. It's NOT only about   
   REDISTRIBUTION & WELFARE. Maybe the poor should keep some garden   
   before getting some carrot. If they ignore that the carrot was   
   harvested by some underpaid Mexican worker, then they may not   
   appreciate their own carrot.   
      
   It sounds like Utopia but around here --in this dystopian community--   
   we have a community garden. The community is still full of shit --   
   that's dog shit and cat shit. And nobody picks it up. Is there   
   unlimited potential for work keeping up one's community?   
      
   I think so. Not too much though. Just enough to make a living. "Work   
   to live, not live to work" is the new ethics.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)