From: hayesstw@telkomsa.net   
      
   Noam Chomsky Discusses Azeri Aggression on Artsakh   
   October 10, 2020 at 8:07 pm David Barsamian Community, Interviews 20   
   David Barsamian and Noam Chomsky at MIT, January 2012. (Photo: Balaji   
   Narasimhan)   
      
   Noam Chomsky, by any measure, has led a most extraordinary life. In   
   one index he is ranked as the eighth most cited person in history,   
   right up there with Aristotle, Shakespeare, Marx, Plato and Freud. The   
   legendary MIT professor practically invented modern linguistics. In   
   addition to his pioneering work in that field, he has been a leading   
   voice for peace and social justice for many decades. Chris Hedges says   
   he is “America’s greatest intellectual” who “makes the powerful, as   
   well as their liberal apologists, deeply uncomfortable.” He is   
   Institute Professor Emeritus in the Department of Linguistics and   
   Philosophy at MIT and Laureate Professor of Linguistics and Haury   
   Chair in the Program in Environment and Social Justice at the   
   University of Arizona. At 91, he is still active, writing and giving   
   interviews to the media all over the world. He is the author of scores   
   of books, including Propaganda & the Public Mind, How the World Works,   
   Power Systems and Global Discontents with David Barsamian of   
   Alternative Radio.   
      
   On October 9, 2020, Barsamian spoke with Noam Chomsky about the war on   
   Artsakh, its imperial roots and the role of “malevolent actors” like   
   Turkey’s Erdogan. The Armenian Weekly thanks Barsamian for permission   
   to publish the transcript of the interview below.   
      
   David Barsamian—The fighting in the Southern Caucasus might be an   
   example of what Edward Said called “unresolved geographies.” A legacy   
   of imperial cartographers. Stalin as commissar of minorities in 1920,   
   to placate Turkey, gave Nagorno Karabakh, which Armenians call   
   Artsakh, and Nakhichevan, both Armenian majority areas, to Azerbaijan.   
   Then with the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 1990s, fighting   
   breaks out, resulting in Armenian forces taking Nagorno Karabakh.   
   There have been skirmishes, so-called incidents, on and off since   
   then, but the attack by Azerbaijan that began on Sept. 27th, no doubt   
   in coordination with Turkey, represents a major escalation. The   
   reporting here [in the U.S.], the little that there is, is without   
   historical background or context. Fighting “erupts,” there are ancient   
   enemies, etc.   
      
   What are the roots of this conflict?   
      
   Noam Chomsky—You’re right that Stalin drew the borders, but remember,   
   he was not the only one to draw borders. The entire Middle East was   
   carved up by French, British imperialists, drawing lines where they   
   wanted, which were to their benefit, taking no account of the needs   
   and interests of the populations. That’s a large part of the cause for   
   the bitter, violent conflicts raging through the region.   
      
   Take, say, Iraq. The British drew the borders around Iraq so that   
   Britain, not Turkey, the former Ottoman Empire, would have control   
   over rich oil resources in the north. That brought together Kurds and   
   Arabs who had nothing to do with each other. The British furthermore   
   wanted to make sure that the new creation they were imposing would not   
   be independent, would not have free easy access to the Gulf, so they   
   carved up the principality of Kuwait, which the British would control,   
   to prevent Iraq from having easy access to the Gulf. Syria, Lebanon,   
   Palestine, same thing. Lines drawn by French, British imperialism for   
   their interests. All over Africa, you see straight lines. Why? The   
   imperial powers were destroying Africa for their interests. Hideous   
   atrocities. We don’t have to go through it. Still showing up with the   
   people dying in the Mediterranean, fleeing from the horrors that were   
   created. So it’s not just Stalin; all the imperial powers.   
      
   Well in the case of Armenia and Azerbaijan, there’s a long history.   
   Can’t go through it, but the immediate crisis came when Azerbaijan,   
   surely with Turkish backing, Israeli arms pouring in. Ben Gurion   
   airport in Israel, Ilyushin planes coming in and out, while no other   
   planes are flying [into Baku], sending Israeli arms to Azerbaijan so   
   they can kill people, Armenians in Nagorno Karabakh. So yes, this is   
   an escalation. International. Russia is on both sides, Iran is   
   supporting Armenia, very strange relations. It’s horrible for the   
   people there. It’s a very dangerous situation. It’s time for   
   international diplomacy, for negotiations to take place to try to   
   dampen in down.   
      
   The actors are not the nicest people in the world, to put it mildly.   
   Erdogan in Turkey is basically trying to create something like the   
   Ottoman Caliphate, with him as caliph, supreme leader, throwing his   
   weight around all over the place, and destroying the remnants of   
   democracy in Turkey at the same time.   
      
   Israel is interested only in selling arms. They’ll sell them to   
   everybody no matter who they’re killing. That’s the mainstay of their   
   economy: security and arms. Even right here where I live, the border   
   not far from where I live is being fortified with the crucial   
   assistance of Israeli so-called security forces and corporations.   
   That’s their job. Elbit [Systems], in this case.   
      
   There’s plenty of malevolent forces involved, and we can only hope   
   that there will be some kind of international effort to dampen down   
   the atrocities and the aggression before it really explodes into   
   massive massacres on the scene and, possibly, international war,   
   because many powerful international forces are involved.   
      
   D.B.: Turkey is also shuttling ISIS jihadi fighters from Syria, and   
   paying their salaries to go fight with the Azerbaijanis against the   
   Armenians.   
      
   N.C.: That’s apparently true. Turkey’s probably doing the same in   
   Libya, one of the other places where Erdogan is trying to show his   
   power. Yes, that’s reported in Azerbaijan.   
      
   D.B.: Armenia in 2018 had a peaceful democratic revolution led by   
   Nikol Pashinyan overthrowing the ruling oligarchy. This is one of the   
   few instances where there was a peaceful revolution replacing an   
   autocratic regime in the post-Soviet states. It wasn’t well-reported   
   on here in the U.S.   
      
   N.C.: As far as I know, there was essentially no interest in the   
   United States. If there was, I failed to detect it. Yes it was, for   
   once, apparently a real democratic revolution. What has happened   
   beyond that, I don’t really know the details.   
      
   D.B.: You know my background is Armenian and I’ve been to the Republic   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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