From: sailorterra@gov.crystaltokyo.jp   
      
   On 2009-01-06 08:10:51 +0900, The Wanderer  said:   
      
   I am going to break some of the things you say here apart so I can go   
   point by point.   
      
   > Usenet is no longer nearly as flush with population as it once was, no.   
   > (I'd be interested to see numbers on its relative level of population   
   > vs. the days before the September That Never Ended, or some similar   
   > prominent dividing line between the old paradigm and the new, but I   
   > don't have any source to look at for such.)   
      
   What is this September That Never Ended. I only used Usenet for AFSM   
   and AFU, with those previously mentioned ocassional stops at RAAC.   
      
   >  Many of the people who might   
   > otherwise have found their way here are probably going to Web forums,   
   > yes. I'm not sure I consider this a bad thing, in that people who would   
   > consider Web forums better are not necessarily people I want to interact   
   > with on a regular basis.   
      
   I think Usenet has advantages, I also think web forums have advantages.   
   And due to the general types of information, mainly media, being shared   
   these days, I would say under most situations web forums probably do a   
   better job. Furthermore, some of the smartest, most active, and   
   certainly most creative people I know I have met through web forums.   
      
   You act as though there isn't idiocy on Usenet, and I have enough years   
   on this part of the internet to know any such idea is just false.   
      
      
   > I haven't done such a search either, but I would not be surprised to   
   > discover that there are very few if any of them - nor to discover that   
   > any such were just as dead as a.f.s-m itself.   
      
   I did such a search. There are several. Sailormoonforums.com is quite   
   active. MoonKitty.net seems to still be. SailorMoonGREP to my surprise   
   is still up. A Sailor Moon Romance, much to my annoyance is not even a   
   shadow of itself. But that was a cursory google search and the top few   
   hits. I am sure if I spent more time I could even produce more.   
      
   And this is one (among several reasons) I think you are being pessimistic.   
      
      
   > I would say so, yes.   
   >   
   >> If you do, then whatever the reason for the decline of this   
   >> particular community, popularity or technology, shouldn't you want to   
   >> do anything which makes it stronger?   
   >   
   > Not necessarily.   
      
   I find these positions to be practically contradictory. Theoretically,   
   of course, they don't contradict. But I have a hard time believing the   
   first answer is yes, the second answer could be no. Unless of course   
   you get actual pleasure from hanging out on a newsgroup almost no one   
   ever bothers posting to.   
      
   > It's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that however badly I want   
   > an SM fan community to exist is not nearly enough to outweigh how badly   
   > I don't want to use (or support the use of) Web forums or the like.   
      
   While I can grant you your right to feel that way, I must admit I am   
   flummoxed by it. I can't see how you could possibly have reasons to   
   avoid them that I could possiby understand that do not also apply to   
   usenet.   
      
   > I also have no particular interest in having the uneducated,   
   > unintelligent, unwashed masses whom I have the prejudicial perception of   
   > being the vast majority of those who populate   
   > non-Usenet/non-mailing-list online discussion fora make up any   
   > non-negligible fraction of any such community I might take part in.   
      
   I am going to assume from the tone of this and previous posts you are   
   not joking. Therefore I will respond seriously, and with a degree of   
   annoyance.   
      
   I think you go too far. There are plenty of educated, intelligent,   
   regularly bathing individuals on web-forums. And those that have strict   
   moderating teams pretty much stay that way.  And again, this concept   
   you have of idiocy not playing out on Usenet is not only false, it is,   
   as we say, QED. See, unlike web-forums or mailing lists... Every single   
   post (including a few I sure as hell would like to take back) on Usenet   
   is preserved. Forever. For anyone to read.   
      
   In truth I had written a very scathing passage here, thought better of   
   it, and eliminated it.   
      
   > That's interesting. I don't remember the last time I saw SM merchandise   
   > on anything short of a specialty-interest Website, and I live in the   
   > reasonably close vicinity of Washington, D.C   
      
   I went ahead and hit all four anime goods stores in my town. All of   
   them had Sailor Moon stuff. I even picked up the manga, as well as the   
   Sailor V manga. Among the other stuff I found was the super famicon   
   games, CDs, LDs, and dolls. If it didn't sell...   
      
   >> My Canadian friends tell me that SM is still popular there. And that   
   >> indeed, Sailor Moon cosplayers are still quite common.   
   >   
   > Again, beyond my knowledge... but that would probably be a point against   
   > my argument, yes. As with Japan, if it's still popular there, that's a   
   > good thing.   
      
   Going by what my canuck friends tell me. They do say it is harder to   
   find merchandise than it has been in the past though by a considerable   
   degree, but it's pretty important that these people are even still   
   LOOKING. If they're looking, it's because they want to buy...   
      
   > I'm saying that that is approximately the attitude which most of the   
   > people who were interested before probably hold towards it now. They   
   > liked it then, and would probably say they like it now, and would   
   > probably come back if something new happened (as in the case of PGSM),   
   > but aren't going to go out of their way for what is seen as a static -   
   > or even stagnant - older series.   
      
   I can concur with this. I just think you severely underestimate how   
   many people are still interested.   
      
   > I'm sure a lot of those who don't bother to check this newsgroup anymore   
   > would say much the same. It's just a matter of how active and/or how   
   > strong that liking is. There are things I liked when I was quite young,   
   > which I still think I like now, which I haven't so much as touched on in   
   > a decade or more and am unlikely to touch anytime soon either.   
      
      
      
   > Anything I could do without the kind of resources corresponding to a   
   > hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars bankroll would be unlikely to have any   
   > significant effect. I therefore bide my time.   
      
   Again, I think you underestimate people, this time you underestimate   
   yourself. And bide your time for what? Some new development? We've   
   already established this is what we've got, probably forever. If that   
   is the case, then what on earth are you waiting for? If you never do   
   anything, you never will get anything done.   
      
   > but there very definitely was a "dead   
   > period" when the list did not exist.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)