XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: jon.lennart.beck.its.my.name@mail.its.in.danmark   
      
   "Troels Forchhammer"  skrev i meddelelsen   
   news:Xns9F80D14F97A05T.Forch@130.133.4.11...   
      
   > I don't really think that anyone is corrupted /by/ the Ring, meaning   
   > that the Ring is no an active agent in the corruption as such. The   
   > corruption is due to the desire for the Ring, but it comes from within,   
   > from the person him- or herself.   
      
      And yet without the Ring there would be no significant corruption.   
   Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Aragorn are as noble as can be, and this is   
   why they all reject the Ring: they know that they would *become* corrupted   
   if they seized it or even accepted it as a free gift from Frodo.  Faramir   
   likewise.  Perhaps this is just another squabble over what the definition of   
   "is" is --- but as I see it for any epsilon greater than zero, if the Ring   
   can find in a person a corruptible taint less than epsilon and greater than   
   zero it will begin its work.  If that person is of innate power lesser than   
   Sauron's and if the Ring has long enough and near enough access to him he   
   will eventually succumb.  Near access implies not just proximity.  A person   
   keeping the Ring is "near" it for this purpose.  If he uses the Ring he is   
   nearer; if he at first took it by force nearer still.  This is why Gandalf   
   advises Bilbo and Frodo to keep it but not use it, and tells Frodo that   
   Bilbo escaped its unwholesome power as well as he did because he did not   
   begin his keeping of it by killing Gollum.   
      Bombadil had not even that corruptible taint in that he had altogether   
   rejected domination, and so he alone, among those who were exposed to it,   
   was utterly incorruptible by the Ring.  If ever eg. Aulë had gotten the Ring   
   I suppose that he also would have felt the pull, but unlike eg. Gandalf   
   would have been able to resist by sheer strength.  Bashed the Ring to   
   oblivion with his hammer in annoyance at the presumption of his upstart   
   former apprentice, perhaps ---   
      Thus as I see it, the Ring *is* an active ingredient in the corruption as   
   such.  So is its victim.  The more active the victim is, the faster the   
   corruption proceeds, of course.  But perhaps you see the Ring as being an   
   enormously powerful catalyst in a person's self-corruption, in which case I   
   have indeed just been squabbling with you over the definition of "is". :-).   
      
      Keep in mind that the Ring's power lay not only in corrupting people.  It   
   was innately evil, and of such great power that any work actively done by   
   that power would inevitably turn to evil.  This does not imply the Ring an   
   almost passive item.  To me it implies that the Ring, given half a chance,   
   would be quite active.   
      It seems, though, that work done incidentally by the power of the Ring   
   would not necessarily turn to evil.  It was the Ring that frightened Snaga   
   when he saw Sam bearing it, but it was not Sam's purpose at the time to   
   dominate Snaga.  The Ring betrayed itself on that occasion.  I suppose it   
   was not able to actively turn its power on and off, whether or not it was   
   sentient and sapient enough to wish to, just as the Nazgûl could not quite   
   turn off the fear that they exuded.  And it could not turn off its secondary   
   side-effect of rendering a person invisible who wore it on a finger, which   
   also worked to its unmaking in the end.   
      I suppose without knowing that if Sam had met and frightened off more   
   orcs by the power of the Ring, he would have been corrupted more quickly,   
   and perhaps not been able to surrender it willingly to Frodo.  "No, Master,   
   I understand your burden now.  You have carried it long enough.  It is my   
   turn now.  I *must* spare you from it.  Yield the burden to me and it will   
   be so much better for you.  Now don't go thinking of taking it back by   
   force, because you know that you're not yourself, and even just for your own   
   sake I must keep it even if I have to push you back.  Just you wait until I   
   have thrown it into the fire, and I'll go back to obeying you just like in   
   the old days."   
      
   > I don't think so -- I think it was a cheat of Boromir. It was Boromir   
   > himself who was proud enough to believe that /he/ could control the   
   > Master Ring against the advice of Gandalf and Elrond, that didn't come   
   > from the Ring.   
      
      If this false belief didn't come *from* the Ring, it was certainly - wait   
   for it, my new favourite word in this debate - catalysed by it.   
      
   Crú.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)