XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: jon.lennart.beck.its.my.name@mail.its.in.danmark   
      
   "Chris Hoelscher"  skrev i meddelelsen   
   news:wLSdnb41iOEyFfvSnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@insightbb.com...   
      
   > which leads me to another question   
      
   > did Ganda;f's posession of the elven ring aid him at all? judged as either   
   > Maia or human - he did not forge the ring - oso it was not "his" in the   
   > sense that Sauron's ring (as i am led to believe) was in harmony with him   
   > and magnified his innate power - even (albeit to a lesser degree) when he   
   > was not in possession of it.   
      
      Sauron forged the Ruling Ring, and so it was his by right.  That he used   
   the Ring for evil purpose did not change the righteousness of his claim to   
   it, for which reason, according to the workings of these things in the   
   mythology, he would have an innate advantage in wielding it.  This is a   
   matter of "mechanics", not morality.  He never relinquished ownership of   
   it - yet it was certainly for the greater good that he was parted from it by   
   force, and it was later unmade against his will.   
      Narya was forged by Celebrimbor, not Gandalf.  However, he gave it freely   
   to Círdan (or to Gil-galad, who passed it on to Círdan) who in turn freely   
   gave it to Gandalf.  Therefore Narya was Gandalf's by right.  Had eg.   
   Saruman taken it from Gandalf by force or trickery he would have been denied   
   that advantage, and would not have been able to wield Narya as efficiently   
   and effortlessly as Gandalf did.  I have not seen this chain of reasoning   
   explicit in the text, but extrapolating from the story about the Palantíri I   
   feel confident that this is the case.  Tolkien is explicit that the   
   Palantíri could be used far more easily by one who had the right, direct or   
   delegated, than by any Joe Sixpack.  Or by Sauron, who came by the Palantír   
   of Minas Ithil wrongfully, for which reason Aragorn, rightful wielder of the   
   Orthanc stone, could actually defeat Sauron in a match of will via Palantír   
   link.   
      
   > so judged as a man - did the ring enhance any of his human attributes? -   
   > judged as a muzzled maia - could it have have enhanced any of his angelic   
   > attributes/powers?   
      
      I don't see that there might be a difference.  Gandalf was a muzzled Maia   
   in the body of a Man, but he was still one whole person.  Narya enhanced   
   that person.   
      
   > also - in Lorien - Frodo was able to see Galadriel's ring - was this by   
   > HER choice? or did his possesion of the one allow him to see this? if the   
   > latter, how is it that he (Frodo) never was able to detect Elronds nor   
   > Galdalf's ring?   
      
      By her permission, perhaps.  But she is explicit that his possession of   
   the One is what enables him to see her ring, which Sam fails to do.  But we   
   are not told that Frodo did not see or suspect Vilya and Narya.  It may be   
   that Frodo did not see Vilya in Rivendell, but when reaching Lórien had   
   become "trained" enough in using the Ring - which only in Rivendell he had   
   learned the full tale of - that he could perceive Nenya.   
      
   Corvus.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)