XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien
From: degrafi@freenet.de
Hello!
Am 21.03.2012 11:42, schrieb Raven:
> "Eruvatar" skrev i meddelelsen
> news:4f69021f$0$2076$c3e8da3$9f400e27@news.astraweb.com...
>> As Saruman was of the Maia and had obviously seen the power of Eru and
>> the Valar, why did he not fear their reactions to his base treachery
>> of his mission to aid others to resist Sauron. I can understand him
>> wanting to keep Sauron from getting back the ring of power but not to
>> use it to replace him. Just seems that he would have been afraid of the
>> consequences of his actions.
> Most likely because he knew that the Valar had given up meddling
> directly in the affairs of Middle-earth. His own order, Heren Istarion,
> were the Valar's last ditch effort against Sauron, and he must have
> known that. Just as Sauron believed, as directly stated by Tolkien,
> that Eru and the Valar had quite given up Middle-earth
Mmmh, could you cite a source? I can remember the Valar giving up
guardianship over Arda (not only ME, downfall of Numenor), and indeed I
always had the feeling that Men had been the unloved "foster-children"
of the Lords of the West. But Eru/Illuvatar? He brought Gandalf back to
live to fulfill his quest (in a way, at least) and extended his "magical
power", and so directly interfered in favour of Sauron's opponents. I
somehow thought that Men turned more directly to Illuvatar than to his
"stewards", the Valar. He definitely had been utterly angry about what
the Numenorians did in their last days, but also Men didn't have that
easy start in existence in comparison to the Elves.
> and that he could
> therefore do what he liked with it, so presumably Saruman believed that
> the Powers of the West and Ilúvatar wouldn't meddle anymore. Loser.
ACK, concerning the Valar. Not so sure about Illuvatar.
Michael
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