XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid   
      
   In message    
   Steuard Jensen  spoke these staves:   
   >   
   > In message <7dadnXglmpE-pxvSnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>, Chris   
   > Hoelscher  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> not to pick a nit - but   
      
   Have you noticed how some sentences invariably must end in a 'but',   
   or 'however' or some similar contradiction ;-)  Just as the 'I am not   
   one to complain' -- there is no way to go on from there, except by   
   'but . . . '  :-)   
      
   Sorry -- this was meant humorously and /not/ as a personal comment:   
   it's just that it triggered me :)   
      
   >> I always thought the text seemed to indicate that Sauron's will   
   >> was removed from the combatants when Frodo put on the ring, not   
   >> when Sauron was emasculared/destroyed   
   >   
   > That has been my reading as well: when Sauron recognized what was   
   > happening at Mt. Doom, it immediately captured his full attention.   
      
   Indeed.   
      
   > (And apparently his attention was a bigger deal to his armies than   
   > I at least had realized before reading that scene.)   
      
   I think something special must have been going on at the battle   
   before the Black Gate -- the description of the reactions of Sauron's   
   armies is not at all consistent with other descriptions of e.g.   
   Mordor Orcs killing Isildur, Uruk-hai from Mordor in Moria, the   
   Mordor Orcs (presumably also Uruks) that accompanied the Isengarders   
   after the capture of Pippin and Merry, and the armies on the Pelennor   
   Fields.   
      
   /My/ personal reading (very much a 'this works for me' speculative   
   explanation) is that we are dealing with something akin to Sauron's   
   enhancement of the Witch-king in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields   
   (where 'he is given an added demonic force' -- /Letters/ no. 210).   
   This would mean that Sauron's attention somehow gave his armies an   
   /additional/ force -- some added demonic motivation, if you will (not   
   a personal power as such) -- a force that might be likened to that of   
   the Norse berserkers (who reputedly were high on some kind of   
   amanita). The armies could function very well without this additional   
   berserker force, but when it was suddenly removed from them, they   
   were confused and those who had revelled the most in this berserker   
   intoxication despaired at finding themselves suddenly deprived of it.   
      
   I am /not/ claiming that this is what Tolkien intended, but it is a   
   way for me to get this scene to make sense ;-)   
      
      
   As for the rest, I have nothing to add except at most 'I agree' . . .   
      
   --   
   Troels Forchhammer   
   Valid e-mail is    
   Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.   
      
       Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no   
       basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power   
       derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some   
       farcical aquatic ceremony.   
    - /Monty Python and the Holy Grail/   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)