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   alt.fan.tolkien      JR Tolkien masturbatory worship echo      70,346 messages   

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   Message 68,785 of 70,346   
   Raven to All   
   Re: did just touching the chain confuse    
   19 Apr 12 22:55:38   
   
   XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: jon.lennart.beck.its.my.name@mail.its.in.danmark   
      
   "Julian Bradfield"  skrev i meddelelsen   
   news:slrnjp0dkt.tvq.jcb@krk.inf.ed.ac.uk...   
      
   > On 2012-04-19, John W Kennedy  wrote:   
      
   >> Gandalf tells Frodo that putting on the Ring made him visible to the   
   >> wraiths. That being the case, someone who is /not/ wearing the Ring can   
   >> be assumed to be invisible to them, wholly or partially. That makes a   
   >> seasoned warrior who knows what they are nothing to toy with.   
      
   > That could work I suppose, but then I wonder how they captured and   
   > interrogated various humans on their way to the Shire, if they only   
   > had vague senses of human?   
      
      As Strider explains on Weathertop: "...For the black horses can see, and   
   the Riders can use men and other creatures as spies, as we found at Bree.   
   They themselves do not see the world of light as we do, but our shapes cast   
   shadows in their minds, which only the noon sun destroys; and in the dark   
   they perceive many signs and forms that are hidden from us: then they are   
   the most to be feared.  And at all times they smell the blood of living   
   things, desiring and hating it.  Senses, too, there are other than sight or   
   smell.  We can feel their presence - it troubled our hearts, as soon as we   
   came here, and before we saw them; they feel ours more keenly.  Also," he   
   added, and his voice sank to a whisper, "the Ring draws them."   
      If  this is accurate, and applies to any single Nazgūl as well as a group   
   of them, then the Rider who overtook them on the road in the Woody End ought   
   to have found Frodo.  His horse might not have seen him, but horses have a   
   good sense of smell, and so do Ringwraiths apparently.  And it should have   
   felt Frodo's presence, and the Ring.  Apparently they can "see", just not   
   with their eyes and not under the midday sun; but it was afternoon.   
      Of course story-internally we can solve this by positing that Aragorn   
   knows much about Nazgūl but not everything, and that even he exaggerates   
   their powers a little, such as their power of perception.  The wraith that   
   overtook Frodo might have been baffled by the sun still being up, and by   
   being in an unfamiliar area and terrain.  The wind might have been   
   favourable from Frodo's point of view; the wind and its direction are not   
   mentioned.  Then the wraith and its horse would not have smelled him, though   
   they would probably have smelled the spoor of the three hobbits along the   
   road - without knowing that among the thousands of hobbits in the Shire one   
   of these had the Ring.  It might also have been less perceptive than other   
   wraiths; had it been another wraith, or more than one, Frodo's peril would   
   have been greater.  The five Nazgūl, that included the Witch-king, who   
   attacked at Weathertop, were a far more perceptible group of hunters than   
   one of the lesser eight alone.   
      In one account of the Hunt for the Ring in UT it is stated that one   
   Khamūl was the one that overtook Frodo twice, and that while he was the most   
   ready after the Black Captain himself to perceive the presence of the Ring,   
   he was also the one whose power was most confused and diminished by   
   daylight.  This would then explain why he was baffled the first time, during   
   the afternoon, but was thwarted only by the timely appearance of  Gildor's   
   company the second time, in the early night under the stars.  Perhaps   
   Tolkien wrote that bit to reconcile the supposed great powers of  perception   
   displayed by the Ringwraiths with the wraith's failure to notice the Ring   
   almost under its nose.   
      
   Corvus.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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