XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid   
      
   In message    
   Sandman  spoke these staves:   
   >   
   > In article ,   
   >  Troels Forchhammer  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> I mean, cauliflower is _bloemkohl_ (IIRC) in Dutch and _blomkål_   
   >> in Danish, and good day is _goddag_ in Danish -- just a couple of   
   >> 'e's from the Dutch . . .   
   >   
   > Danish is a mess. I'm from Sweden and Swedish, Norwegian and   
   > Danish is considered almost dialects to the rest of the world, but   
   > while I can fully understand most Norwegians, Danish people speak   
   > as if they're not only trying to pronounce "blomkål", they have   
   > the mouth full if it as well!   
   >   
   > When in Denmark, I tell them to speak English :)   
      
   Actually Swedish and Danish are, linguistically speaking, closer   
   relatives than either is to Norwegian (which ought to look and sound   
   more like Icelandic and Faroese) -- it is just that between us we   
   have (through our thoroughly colonialist / imperialist approach to   
   the Norwegians) managed to mess up Norwegian to the point that it   
   normally sounds and looks like a mix of Danish and Swedish  :-)   
      
   Unfortunately the situation you describe is how many percieve it --   
   and these days it is even true of many young people who live close by   
   Sweden, but I think there is still hope.   
      
   Most Danes born before ca. 1980 who have lived where they could   
   receive Swedish television can normally understand written Swedish   
   quite well, and will be able to understand spoken Swedish if they   
   make just a small effort (and the Swede is willing to slow down a   
   bit).   
      
   On the other hand, I have always found that if the people on both   
   sides are willing to make an effort, understanding is much better   
   when we speak Swedish and Danish than when we resort to try English   
   (which most Danes and Swedes, while reasonably proficient for a non-   
   native language, are no-where near as proficient at as we tend to   
   believe).  There has always (at least while I have worked there) been   
   many Swedes working at Nokia in Copenhagen, and excepting the   
   specific mobile industry terms (which are invariably in English and   
   used in that language everywhere) understanding is always better when   
   we just speak each our native tongue (well, that is -- unless it is   
   someone speaking the old Scanian dialect, i.e. not just the accent,   
   but it's my understanding that most Swedes find the Scanian dialect   
   incomprehensible as well).   
      
   So, to my eyes the problem, in Denmark, seems rather to be that   
   people can't be bothered to actually make an effort (and have an   
   overrated opinion of their own proficiency at English, which is seen   
   as more prestigious).  I cannot say if the same is true in Sweden,   
   but based on the encounters that I have had with Swedes, I'd say that   
   there need not be a problem at all if we just make an effort.   
      
   Oh -- and I'm sorry if I come across as preaching: my own kids are   
   thoroughly fed up with hearing their father go on about how they can   
   easily understand Swedish if they just make an effort, but it our   
   common Scandinavian heritage is something that I do feel is important   
   :-)   
      
   --   
   Troels Forchhammer   
   Valid e-mail is    
   Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.   
      
       The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.   
       But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another   
       profound truth.   
    - Niels Bohr   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)