XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: david@trimboli.name   
      
   On 9/4/2012 5:14 PM, sean_q wrote:   
   > On 9/4/2012 6:21 AM, Raven wrote:   
   >   
   >> I have not seen described how Sauron managed to take back the Nine. When   
   >> in the presence of a Nazgûl he was powerful enough to take it, whether   
   >> the   
   >> Nazgûl liked it or not.   
   >   
   > I prefer to believe "The Nine the Nazgul keep" literally.   
   > He gave Great Rings of Power to kings who cherished power   
   > and so ensnared them.   
      
   I agree with Raven. We see evidence for this when Frodo threatens to put   
   on the Ring and command Gollum to kill himself. They both know Gollum   
   would be forced to obey. This is because Gollum is enslaved to the One   
   Ring, and its bearer may command its slaves.   
      
   If Gollum had attacked Sam while Sam had the Ring, Sam could have   
   commanded Gollum. However, I suspect that Sam hadn't had it long enough   
   to use it for command. Frodo had possessed it for years, and was deep in   
   its power. Sam barely scratched the surface.   
      
   So Sauron must command the Ringwraiths because he possesses the Nine. He   
   can't use those rings to create more Ringwraiths without losing control   
   over those he already has to whoever has the ring that Ringwraith is   
   subject to. And he can't command a wearer of one of the Nine without the   
   One.   
      
   So, the summary of my analysis. Wearing the One lets you command anyone   
   wearing another Ring. The Seven, Nine, and One eventually enslave their   
   wearers to themselves, and new wearers can command those slaves. In any   
   case you need sufficient stature and power to command anyone. Dwarves   
   seem to be immune to enslavement, though they experience other effects.   
      
   Pondering: are the Seven and the Nine interchangeable, or is a slave to   
   one of them only a slave to that particular ring? "Give us back our   
   ring! No, not that one, the other one!" Can someone wearing one of them   
   command someone enslaved to another ring? If Gandalf had gotten Thrain's   
   ring, could he have commanded the Ringwraiths with it? (I don't think   
   so; I think each ring has power over only its own wearers.)   
      
   --   
   David Trimboli   
   http://www.trimboli.name/   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)