XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid   
      
   In message    
   Michael Ikeda  spoke these staves:   
   >   
   > Sandman  wrote in   
   > news:mr-9E9433.00202202012013@News.Individual.NET:   
   >>   
   >> In article ,   
   >>  Michael Ikeda  wrote:   
   >>>   
      
   [Saruman]   
   >>> He would not have been corrupted specifically by the palantir,   
   >>> but he was already corrupted to some extent by his desire for   
   >>> the One Ring.   
   >>   
   >> Perhapsmaybe, there's little to give us any good intel on that.   
   >> We know, however, when he started using the palantir and got   
   >> lured specifically by Sauron.   
      
   It is quite definite that Saruman was working against the interests   
   of the 'good' side (the White Council) long before he was snared by   
   Sauron in the palantír. Indeed, the very fact that he would try the   
   palantír is indicative of this corruption (unlike Denethor, Saruman   
   did not have the /right/ to use the palantír).   
      
   > The footnote to the Appendix B entry for the year TA 2851 (when   
   > Saruman overruled Gandalf's request for an attack on Dol Guldur.)   
   > says that "It afterwards became clear that Saruman had then begun   
   > to desire to possess the One Ring himself, and hoped that it might   
   > reveal itself, seeking its master, if Sauron were let be for a   
   > time."   
   [...]   
      
   Yes, Saruman was at this point definitely corrupted by his desire to   
   'possess the One Ring himself' -- so much that he actively pursued a   
   strategy that had this goal in mind. The only four characters that we   
   ever see pursue such a strategy are Sauron himself, Gollum, Saruman   
   and Boromir (and for Boromir it is probably a bit over the top to   
   call it a strategy -- it was more a spur of the moment thing).   
      
   To put it very short: to seek to possess the One Ring, knowing it for   
   what it is, is _always_ an act of evil in Tolkien's story. An Istar   
   doing evil acts is corrupted, fallen.   
      
   >> Gandalf feels himself drawn to the ring as well, as well as   
   >> Galadriel - but neither should be called "turned" or evil for   
   >> feeling that.   
      
   They both felt a desire for the power that the Ring could be, but   
   both rejected that desire within themselves (a desire which is, in   
   Tolkien's story, inherently corrupting if not actively rejected) and   
   thus rejected the Ring. They are free of fault because of this   
   rejection while Saruman, who didn't reject, but rather embraced, his   
   desire for the power of the Ring, is accordingly fallen.   
      
   >> I always felt that the lure of the ring would be stronger for   
   >> Maiar (which is why so many of them seem to confront the ring   
   >> bearer so often, you'd think),   
      
   I can't think of any definite Maiar confronting the Ring Bearer. Of   
   course, if by 'confront' you merely mean 'face', Gandalf faces the   
   Ring Bearer several times, but no other known Maia does so. Tom   
   Bombadil might, of course, be a Maia (or at least some kind of lesser   
   Ainu -- not all of the Ainur that entered into Arda were necessarily   
   of the Valar or the Maiar), which would increase the number of Maiar   
   facing the Ring Bearer to three: only one of which shows any sign of   
   desiring the Ring.   
      
   Since we have no idea about Radagast (he doesn't seem to have been   
   corrupted by a desire for power, rather he failed his mission by   
   focusing on the fauna of Middle-earth rather than on the Children of   
   Ilúvatar), this leaves only Saruman and Sauron as Maiar actually   
   seeking to gain the One Ring for themselves.   
      
   I don't think that the Maiar were more susceptible to the Ring's lure   
   to power than were Men -- Sauron's success with the Nine would seem   
   to indicate that Men are particularly susceptible ('Men proved easier   
   to ensnare'). The key is the desire for more power than you have   
   already got -- a desire which is, in Tolkien's writings, directly   
   linked to the desire to dominate and control the world, to order the   
   world as you want it. Gandalf recognises this and is able to reject   
   this desire for power to order the world, recognising that it would   
   be an evil thing:   
      
       Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron.   
       He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He   
       would have continued to rule and order things for 'good',   
       and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom   
       (which was and would have remained great).').   
       (/Letters/ no. 246)   
      
   However, about the ability to /resist/ the Ring's 'lure to power',   
   Tolkien also writes about Frodo that   
       a person of greater native power could probably never have   
       resisted the Ring's lure to power so long; a person of less   
       power could not hope to resist it in the final decision.   
       (/Letters/ no. 181)   
      
   While this is not directly translatable to Saruman (who never   
   actually held the Ring), I think it may still inform our views on the   
   effect that the Ring's lure to power had on someone who studied it as   
   Saruman did -- the greater their innate power, the more difficult it   
   would be to withstand that lure. In this way Saruman was, of course,   
   more susceptible than most other denizens of Middle-earth, but this   
   would leave the greatest of the Elves, Galadriel, Elrond, Glorfindel,   
   Círdan (and any other surviving Noldo who had made the crossing from   
   Aman) equally susceptible (note that Gandalf the Grey fares about as   
   well against a balrog as did the First Age Glorfindel).   
      
   Sauron, while bound to his body which seems to have decreased his   
   power in some ways and increased it in other ways, is the only Ainu   
   that we see in Middle-earth in /The Lord of the Rings/ whose power is   
   clearly out of the scope of any Elven individual -- all other Ainur   
   either are of the lesser kinds or have their power somehow limited so   
   that they are roughly on par with the Children of Ilúvatar (though at   
   times with a very select group of the most powerful of the Eruhíni,   
   such as the Elves on the White Council).   
      
   >> and Saruman were no different than any other in this regard until   
   >> Sauron got his hands on him.   
      
   Saruman was definitely very different from all other of the Wise. He   
   alone ever sought to actually find and seize the Ring for himself,   
   and this he had begun long before he tried to use the palantír and   
   indeed before TA2851.   
      
   --   
   Troels Forchhammer   
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