XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm   
      
   On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 23:42:38 GMT, Igenlode Wordsmith wrote:   
   >   
   > Troels Forchhammer  wrote in message   
      
   >   
   > [snip]   
   >   
   > > It is quite definite that Saruman was working against the interests   
   > > of the 'good' side (the White Council) long before he was snared by   
   > > Sauron in the palantír. Indeed, the very fact that he would try the   
   > > palantír is indicative of this corruption (unlike Denethor, Saruman   
   > > did not have the /right/ to use the palantír).   
   > >   
   >   
   > I don't think it's suggested that only the descendants of the King or   
   > the Ruling Steward had the right to use the palantiri; since they were   
   > for communication, at least the senior watch officer (as it were) in   
   > each of the towers where a palantir was housed must have been in the   
   > habit of using them. Saruman was the tenant of Orthanc, and arguably   
   > felt himself entitled to make use of all the equipment in it -- although   
   > I'm sure that Gondor never intended to make him a gift of the   
   > Orthanc-stone; it was simply forgotten!   
      
   I agree with Igenlode on this one.  In UT, "The Palantíri", the first   
   paragraph contains this text: "only kings and rulers, and their   
   appointed wardens, had access to them, and they were never consulted,   
   nor exhibited, publicly."   
      
   Saruman was a warden of the Stewards with respect to Isengard, fully   
   entitled to use all the facilities of Isengard and Orthanc.   
      
   This is even more explicit in a later paragraph:  "The Orthanc-stone   
   appears to have been at this time long disregarded by the Stewards:   
   it was no longer of any use them, and was secure in its impregnable   
   tower. ... Isengard remained a personal possession of the Stewards,   
   but Orthanc itself became deserted, and eventually it was closed and   
   its keys removed to Minas Tirith. If Beren the Steward considered the   
   Stone at all when he gave these to Saruman, he probably thought that   
   it could be in no safer hands than those of the head of the Council   
   opposed to Sauron. ... Saruman ... acquired the keys of Orthanc in   
   2759, nominally as warden of the tower and lieutenant of the Stewards   
   of Gondor."   
      
   We might argue that Saruman lost that right at some point, as he   
   began working more and more against the interests of Gondor.  But as   
   far as I know the Stewards never formally revoked his tenancy of   
   Orthanc.   
      
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