XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: mr@sandman.net   
      
   In article ,   
    ~consul  wrote:   
      
   > >> I'm moderately confused by the changes to the backstory. Why make   
   > >> Thror corrupted by gold and Thrain a maddened coward?   
   > >   
   > > Corrupted by gold... well, that was odd.. But in what way did you   
   > > percieve Thrain to be a maddened coward? I missed that.   
   >   
   > I don't know about the coward part, but in later half of the book, there is   
   > much text of the gold lust. Bilbo, with true hobbit willpower, brushes it   
   > off, while Thorin mouths off at Bard and the Elven King reps.   
      
   I'm confused, are you talking about the book or the movie now?   
      
   > >> More seriously, I'm not sure why exactly Saruman thinks that he can   
   > >> dictate what a random group of Dwarves can or cannot do, nor why   
   > >> the news that they had just left town (along a known, very   
   > >> specific, very narrow trail) suddenly convinced him that he was no   
   > >> longer able to do so.   
   > >   
   > > When Gandalf learns that Saruman is there, he is almost disappointed,   
   > > which in line with our knowledge about Saruman. But Gandalf doesn't   
   > > know any of this at the time. At the time, Saruman is the head of the   
   > > Istari and deserves Gandalfs respect. In Fellowship, he specifically   
   > > goes to Saruman for advice, yet in Hobbit, he seems to rather want him   
   > > to not be there.   
   >   
   > Was he disappointed or surprised?   
      
   My impression was that he was disappointed. A slight sigh and general   
   body language to show that his inner thoughts were along the lines of   
   "Oh no, he's here".   
      
   > I thought that in the move, Elrond called him for consultation?   
   > Gandalf probably thought he was just going to have a pleasant   
   > conversation amongst two.   
      
   I don't think it is established whether Elrond "calls" for Saruman.   
   Saruman seems to have travelled hundreds of miles to a place he   
   actually didn't know whether Gandalf would show up at. Presumably,   
   Saruman, Elrond and Galadriel were there for a meeting without   
   Gandalf, and by chance, he turned up.   
      
      
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