XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid   
      
   In message    
   Lewis  spoke these staves:   
   >   
   > In message    
   >   Sandman  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> In article ,   
   >>  Lewis  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >> There is nothing in the books that suggest that the will of the   
   >> ring had any remote effect at all upon Saruman. The corruption of   
   >> Saruman was solely the inherit corruption in himself - i.e. lust   
   >> for power. The ring was a means for that lust, not a source of   
   >> it.   
   >   
   > I'm not sure there is any evidence that the Ring had a will. Yes,   
   > Gandalf speaks of the ring 'wanting' but that seems to me simply a   
   > word that is used because the word that is needed doesn't exist. I   
   > don't think the Ring had a will, other than an inherent tendency   
   > to happen into the paths that might lead it back to Sauron. I   
   > think ascribing an intelligence or even agency to the Ring is a   
   > mistake.   
      
   Hear! Hear!  :-)   
      
   The curious thing is that if you had asked me a few years ago, I   
   would have disagreed with your position, but I have spent quite a bit   
   of effort trying to understand what Tolkien did with the Ring, and I   
   am sure that you are right.   
      
   Those who back then argued that the Ring could not think and could at   
   best be likened to a complex computer program can now smile and are   
   allowed a fair amount of saying 'I told you so'  ;-)   
      
   There is quite a bit of antropomorphism going on with respect to the   
   Ring, and a part of that is the narrative attribution of agency to   
   the Ring. Within the tale, the Ring takes on a narrative role as an   
   individual character -- but this is a natural consequence of the   
   tendency to attribute antropomorphic agency to anything that greatly   
   influences the plot simply by /being/. Such antropomorphisms are   
   common in fairy-stories and is used often enough by Tolkien (the   
   mountain Caradhras is another excellent example).   
      
   The Ring is, however, sentient in the sense that it is capable of   
   sensing its surroundings, including an ability to identify who is at   
   the current time wearing it, who is possessing it, and who is at the   
   current time its master. I do not think that the Ring ever does   
   anything actively (here meant in the same sense as e.g. a computer is   
   'active') to anyone except the one who is wearing it or possessing it   
   (the prevention of ageing seems not to depend on keeping it on your   
   person).   
      
   --   
   Troels Forchhammer   
   Valid e-mail is    
   Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.   
      
       Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him, and   
       he said: "But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding   
       run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your   
       children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth.   
    - Aragorn, /The Lord of the Rings/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)