XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: mr@sandman.net   
      
   In article , Wayne Brown wrote:   
      
   > > > > > > Steve Morrison:   
   > > > > > > But we never learn any more about the ?wizardry? which the   
   > > > > > > Númenoreans used. in particular, we never learn whether   
   > > > > > > it involved magic or just very advanced engineering.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Ignatios Souvatzis:   
   > > > > > Any sufficently advanced engineering is indistinguishable   
   > > > > > from magic.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Taemon:   
   > > > > That's not true, actually.   
   > > >   
   > > > Lewis:   
   > > > Course it is, if it is sufficiently advanced.   
   > >   
   > > Taemon:   
   > > It can be explained, and it can be used by everyone. So, no.   
   >   
   > If it can be explained, then it's not sufficiently advanced.   
      
   The point isn't about engineering that can be explained by an engineer, but   
   the perception of the laymen. So watching a real magician levitate a desk   
   and an engineer levitate a desk using technology - you'd not be able to   
   tell them apart. Even if the technology used by the engineer is   
   "explainable" to the viewer.   
      
   > The word "sufficiently" makes it a tautology.  Essentially, it's   
   > saying, "Any engineering that is advanced enough to be   
   > indistinguishable from magic is indistinguishable from magic."   
      
   Pretty much. There's lots of that in the world, and even with technology   
   that isn't all that advanced, really.   
      
      
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