XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies   
      
   In message <3pa0p9d93g04c324h90ehdujlg2ngb849m@4ax.com>   
     Steve Hayes  wrote:   
   > On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:51:33 +0000 (UTC), Lewis   
   >  wrote:   
      
   >>In message <91luo91pg8ecuhecms1ad2s45n386gchg2@4ax.com>   
   >>  Paul S  Person  wrote:   
   >>> On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 20:16:44 +0200, Taemon  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>On 1-6-2014 18:58, Paul S. Person wrote:   
   >>>>> On Sun, 01 Jun 2014 13:38:56 +0200, Taemon  wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 27-5-2014 18:57, Paul S. Person wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2014 23:08:40 +0200, Taemon  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>Hey,   
   >>>>   
   >>>>I'm really busy for a couple of days and won't have the headspace to   
   >>>>have this discussion properly. I'll be back later. Still enjoying it :-)   
   >>   
   >>> No problem, but you might want to have it with Lewis, who appears to   
   >>> believe that you can't possible adopt the position you have adopted   
   >>> because no one can be allowed to do so. That's right, I said   
   >>> "allowed", because that, I think, best summarizes his attitude.   
   >>   
   >>People are not allowed to state that their beliefs, fantasies, and   
   >>opinions are facts when they are not. that I would agree with.   
      
   > Well you'd have to, wouldn't you, since you described your own belief that   
   God   
   > does not exist as a "fact". It is, too, if it is what you in fact believe.   
      
   No, I never said I believe god does not exist. You are mangling words.   
      
   There is no evidence of god (any god), therefore there is no god. That   
   is a statement of FACT, not belief, not opinion, not faith, not   
   delusion, not fantasy.   
      
   IF there is evidence that a god exist then, and only then (just like   
   the black swans) "there is a god" becomes a fact.   
      
   > What is a "fact" depends very much on where you are and the point of view   
   from   
   > which you see things.   
      
   No. Facts are absolute and in no way relative. They are immune to points   
   of view and how you see things, that is what makes them facts. Facts are   
   the things that do not change when you stop believing in them.   
      
   > I can say that it is a fact that the sun rose this morning, but someone might   
   > argue that that is not a fact, since I saw it from the earth, and the earth   
   is   
   > rotating in such a way that the sun happened to become visible to me.   
      
   The word 'rise' is relative, so the event described is relative. As a   
   *relative* description of an event, "The sun rose this morning" is a   
   fact.   
      
   [fantasy mumbo-jumbo deleted]   
      
   --   
   This was music that had not only escaped but had robbed a bank on the   
   way out. It was music with its sleeves rolled up and its top button   
   undone, raising its hat and grinning and stealing the silver. It was   
   music that went down to the feet by way of the pelvis without paying a   
   call on Mr. Brain. --Soul Music   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)