XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joedoe3@gmail.com   
      
   Michael Ikeda schrieb am 07/29/2014 12:02 AM:   
   > fred@fred.com (fred) wrote in   
   > news:1lpigh9.177w3a3zq6c3qN@[192.168.0.33]:   
   >   
   >> Geza Giedke  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> Morgoth's Curse  schrieb am   
   >>> 07/28/2014 06:58 AM:   
   >>>> Did Gandalf ever explore Mordor? According to Appendix B,   
   >>>> nearly a thousand years passed between the arrival of the   
   >>>> Istari in Middle-earth and the conquest of Minas Ithil by the   
   >>>> Nazgul which closed the last easy access route to Mordor. In   
   >>>> consideration of the fact that Gandalf was the enemy of   
   >>>> Sauron, intimate knowledge of Mordor would have been vital   
   >>>> however distasteful it would have been to acquire it.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> i don't recall any mention of it - and if he had intimate   
   >>> knowledge of Mordor, it would have been prudent to share it   
   >>> with the Fellowship (or at least Aragorn and Frodo.   
   >>> also, Gandalf indicates that he hasn't: "Olorin I was in my   
   >>> youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incanus, in   
   >>> the North Gandalf; to the East I go not."   
   >>> Maybe the reason is that Gandalf's mission was to encourage and   
   >>> support others in their resistance to Sauron, thus he stayed   
   >>> mainly in the West among the people most likely to be help.   
   >>>   
   >>> regards   
   >>>  Geza   
   >>   
   >> IDHTBIFOMATM, but doesn't Frodo mention at some point on the way   
   >> to Mordor that Gandalf had only been in Sauron's lesser fortress   
   >> of Dol Guldur?   
   >>   
   >   
   > In "The Black Gate is Closed" just after Gollum has outlined his   
   > suggested route, Frodo is trying to recall what Gandalf had told   
   > him and wonders whether Gandalf had ever visited Barad-dur.  The   
   > exact phrase used is "Frodo did not think so".   
   >   
   > (I have a vague memory of there being more specific confirmation   
   > from Gandalf himself, but I'm not sure where that would be.)   
   >   
      
   before the gate of Moria, Gandalf himself makes the statement that Fred   
   remembers:   
   "You speak of what you do not know, when you liken Moria to the   
   stronghold of Sauron,' answered Gandalf. `I alone of you have ever been   
   in the dungeons of the Dark Lord, and only in his older and lesser   
   dwelling in Dol Guldur. Those who pass the gates of Barad-dûr do not   
   return."   
      
   That does not exclude that Gandalf may have explored Mordor after the   
   Dark Tower had been thrown down and before Sauron returned. But I do not   
   know of any evidence that he did.   
      
   regards   
    Geza   
      
      
   --   
                               Now come ye all,   
   who have courage and hope!  My call harken   
   to flight, to freedom       in far places!   
                                         Lays of Beleriand   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)