XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: fwbrown@bellsouth.net   
      
   In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S. Person    
   wrote:   
   > On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 04:28:01 -0400, Stan Brown   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >>On 15 Oct 2014 13:29:37 GMT, Sandman wrote:   
   >>> "Nine he gave to Mortal Men, proud and great, and so ensnared them"   
   >>>   
   >>> They were "proud and great", "and so", i.e. "therefore" they were ensnared.   
   >>   
   >>The "and so" refers to the giving of Rings, not to the pride and   
   >>greatness of the Men. I'm not sure if you're saying that, or   
   >>something different.   
   >   
   > This is a tricky statement to parse.   
   >   
   > Sandman appears to believe that being "proud and great", as such, made   
   > then ensnarable, not noticing (apparently) that this would make most   
   > men, who are certainly not "proud and great" as these kings were, not   
   > nearly so easy to ensnare. At best, we can say only that we do not   
   > know if they are ensnarable or not, since Sauron did not try and since   
   > being "proud and great" is being taken (in this view, as I understand   
   > it) as a prerequisite to being ensnared.   
   >   
   > I would interpret it as meaning that Sauron /selected/ them because   
   > they were "proud and great". But, of course, since they were clearly   
   > ensnared because they were selected, and since Sauron had no interest   
   > in selecting peasants or tradesmen, here also being "proud and great"   
   > caused them to be ensnared --- just in a different sense.   
   >   
   > My interpretation leaves us with the possibility that a humble   
   > woodcarver, had Sauron chosen to give him a ring, very likely would   
   > have been ensnared, although neither "proud" nor "great" in the   
   > relevant senses.   
      
   We need to keep in mind that a Great Ring gave power only in proportion   
   to the native strength of its wearer, and the One Ring required the   
   most strength of all.  Only a strong-willed person with experience in   
   dominating and controlling others would be able to make full use of   
   the powers of a Great Ring.  (The Three were different, being designed   
   for healing and preservation rather than for power and domination, so   
   presumably they would require a different set of strengths and attitudes   
   in their wearers.)  A humble woodcarver might well have been ensnared   
   by a Ring of Power, but he probably wouldn't have been able to control   
   his ring well enough to have been of any value to Sauron in conquering   
   the free peoples of Middle-Earth.   
      
   --   
   F. Wayne Brown    
      
   Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg.  ("That passed away, this also can.")   
      from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)